006: The Role of Positive Psychology in SEL with Dr. Felix Yerace

Craig (05:17):

Alright, Family. Welcome back to SELinEDU. I am Craig and we have Krista here.  Krista, how are you doing?

Krista (05:33):

I am fabulous. Tonight. We are in a room with Dr. Felix Yerace and just laughing it up and I cannot wait for our listening audience to meet him.

Craig (05:46):

Oh yeah, absolutely. He is done in just a beautiful shirt that I think we, you know, might want to put out there into the atmosphere, to make kindness normal. Ha, I can't wait for, uh, Dr. Felix to share a little bit more, but let me tell you a little bit more about, uh, Dr. Felix Ricci, uh, who teaches leadership in positive psychology classes at south Fayette high school in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He's the education and engagement coordinator for the national association for student activities, the assistant executive director for the Pennsylvania association of student councils, a member of the Pennsylvania, ASCD executive board, the Pennsylvania teachers, uh, advisory committee, and was a 2015 ASCD emerging leader. He was a former member of the national association of secondary school principals, student leadership advisory committee, and was a 2019 national student council, uh, conference host advisor. He's a 2020 graduate of the master of Applied Positive Psychology program at Penn. I would love to welcome you Doctor Felix Yerace. How are you doing today?

Felix (07:06):

Well, I'm wonderful. And I just want to start by saying, Krista, Craig–first of all, thank you for that very kind introduction. I'm very excited to be with you both tonight. I'm really excited to be able to have this conversation with you because I truly am passionate about SEL, student engagement and student leadership development, and anything that we can do to improve the education of our students. And especially as a high school teacher, helping students to be able to take that next, uh, step in their journey in their lives. So I'm really glad, really appreciate the opportunity to speak to both of you tonight.

Krista (07:38):

Thank you. I'm gonna just call you Dr. Felix, cause I, that sounds, I am just so proud. First of all, you are in my home state, we share the home state of Pennsylvania. We were talking about how large the state is, and you're actually several hours away, about six hours away from us, uh, from where I am right now, I should say. We met through Pennsylvania, ASCD, and I just was blown away by you because of the passion that you have for students. I also love working with secondary ed students, and I have yet to meet somebody who has the depth of, not only knowledge but work experience with students and student leadership. And then you add in the positive psychology mix and the social emotional learning mix. And it's just amazing. And so I'm so happy that you're here to share with us.

Felix (08:49):

Well, I appreciate that. And I'm passionate about this and you know, much like you, Krista, I have to tell you, and I really do mean this, you know, being an ASCD Emerging Leader and the work that you did in Pennsylvania, ASCD that really provided an opportunity for myself to get more involved on a state level than on a national level. You know, I truly appreciate that, but even just having a podcast like this and providing for and opportunities for other educators. I truly do love working with students, but I would also say that as I've grown in my career.  One thing that I've really tried to do is to help other educators and to be able to amplify the voice of educators and to be able to help teachers, to be able to be more effective with the students they're working with.

Felix (09:33):

And there are several people along my journey that I've always looked to as role models and exemplars, and you certainly are one of them. So I really appreciate everything that you've done to support fellow educators like myself and to help amplify all of our collective voices. I would just like to add as a fellow social studies teacher, I've always felt that you were a kindred spirit with me also. So like I said, I'm just really excited to be able to share the time here on this podcast with you and with Craig.

Krista (10:01):

So let's step into it, and thank you for those really nice thoughts and sentiments. I like to look at your social media. I look at your Facebook because I absolutely love what you post and it just resonates with me so much. And because you live social emotional learning. You live positive psychology and leadership. I would love for you to talk about what your passions are. If you could talk to me more about positive psychology because I have a friend who has also been through the program. I would love it if you could explain a little bit about what that is for our listening audience.  I know you have had opportunities to learn from Martin Seligman and Angela Duckworth and Adam Grant. And I would love to know if you could share more about positive psychology and the role that learning has played in your interactions with students and with educators.

Felix (11:05):

I would definitely love to share with your audience. And I think that for me, that was really one of the major reasons why I wanted to come on the podcast. They were able to share some of that and spread the word about Positive Psychology. The founder of positive psychology is considered to be Martin Seligman, who is a professor at the University of Pennsylvania, and was somebody who was involved in teaching psychology and doing research in psychology. Dr. Seligman has published over 30 books and is one of the most cited psychologists in the 20th century. But after doing psychology for as long as he did, one of the things that Marty said was, you know, I've worked with disease, I've worked with pathology, I've worked with illness. There has to be more to psychology than just that.

Felix (11:51):

And Dr. Seligman is a former president of the American psychological association. I know for myself, what really helped to get me into positive psychology was becoming a Clifton strengths coach. Clifton's strengths come from Dawn Clifton, who was a professor at the University of Nebraska. And he asked a question and you know, it's funny. And I know this will resonate with both of you with a lot of people that are listening to this podcast. I was at training. It was now in Nashville, it was in a conference room much like the room I'm currently in right now.

It was very cold. So, you know, I was bundled up and I was listening to this presentation and this slide came up in this PowerPoint deck. And it was a question from Don Clifton. And the question was a very simple one, but it was a very profound one. And, you know, I don't want to oversell this, but in many ways, it did change my life. And the question was, what if we stopped looking at what was wrong with people and started focusing on what was right with people. And for me, that was such a simple and yet a fundamental shift in thinking about not only myself and how I viewed myself and my practice as a teacher and just who, why I was, but also even looking a look at my students and my colleagues looking instead from a deficit perspective of what's wrong and what needs to be fixed and how we need to remediate those elements.

Felix (13:25):

And instead, what's right with people, what are they doing? That's positive, what are they doing? That's good. What are the strengths they already possess? And how can we amplify that? And how can we really build upon that? And that was really what got me on the path of positive psychology. That was a very similar question that Martin Seligman was asked as well. And really when we talk about positive psychology, what we're looking at is human excellence. And we're looking at optimizing the human experience and human lives. And the term that we often use in positive psychology comes from Aristotle. And that term is eudaimonia. When Aristotle talked about eudaimonia, the direct translation from Greek to English is happiness. But when Aristotle talked about eudaimonia, he wasn't talking about happiness, as we understand it, what he was really talking about was human flourishing. And he was really talking about how people can flourish.

Felix (14:10):

How can people live their best life, their optimal life? And that really was what positive psychology is all about. And so, so, and one of the analogies that we use in positive psychology is as Martin Seligman tells us…wellness is not the absence of illness. And so if you think about somebody who's suffering from disease or suffering from pathology or somebody who is in needs interventions or need help. If you think about them, a number can range from say a negative 10 to a positive 10. If I can move somebody from a negative four to a zero, I made a dramatic improvement in their life. You know, I definitely helped that person. And the reality is that mainstream psychology or business as usual psychology. From the end of world war II, really through the end of the 20th century, was really focused on disease and pathology. How can we help move people?

Felix (15:00):

And again, it really did start with funding at the end of world war II. How can we move people who are suffering from the traumas and the horrors of the war from a negative four or negative five to a zero? And we've made tremendous strides in psychology as a result of that, we can now diagnose 14 different illnesses and ailments. We've been able to treat millions of people around the world, and we've been able to alleviate the suffering of millions of people. And that's tremendous, and that's phenomenal. And we need to keep being able to do that. But again, as Martin's Seligman said, wellness is not the absence of illness. If I can move you from a negative four to a zero, that's great, but I don't know anybody who I've ever met that wants to be at a zero. And when we think about people who are at a zero, we oftentimes the term that we use, and you would mention Adam Grant. Adam Grant had an editorial in the New York Times last year about this.

Felix (15:48):

People are languishing. They're not suffering, but they're languishing. They're just kind of there. They're just kind of, you know, they're surviving, they're getting along. They're not living their best life. They're certainly not flourishing. And so in positive psychology, what we really focus on is how can I take somebody at a one and move them to a three? How can I take somebody at a two and move them to a five? And so what we're taking a look at in positive psychology is what are the tools that we can use that psychology has identified that are scientifically-backed, that are rooted in research, and that we can use with people to move them from a zero or a one to a three or a four or a five and move them from languishing to flourishing. And that really is the goal. And that really is the purpose of positive psychology.

Krista (16:30):

I love that you referenced that Grant article because I read that and what resonated with me on that is one of the things he talked about was scrolling like that. Do not just do scrolling, but like, Ugh, I don't know what to do. I'm not motivated to do anything, but I'm just gonna kind of scroll and like to look through Facebook and social media. How do we kind of get ourselves out of that right? In a way, because it's bad, but it's not great.

Felix (17:01):

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's something that I talk to my students about. And so something that is really important to us in the University of Pennsylvania program and something that I reinforce with my students, the class that I teach is actually not positive psychology. The class that I teach is applied positive psychology. My degree is not in positive psychology. My degree is in applied positive psychology. And we talk a lot about willpower. We talk a lot about habits in positive psychology. , I'm sure that both of you are familiar and I'm sure many of the, listeners are familiar with Laurie San. Who's a professor at Yale who has the science of happiness podcast, which is one of the most, uh, popular podcasts on Coursera. And one of the things that she talks about in her podcast is the GI Joe fallacy. So if you remember in the 1980s, there was the GI Joe cartoon, which I'm sure many of us grew up with.

Felix (17:49):

And, you know, during the GI Joe cartoon, there was always that PSA. And there would always be one of the kids that were doing something that was potentially dangerous or bad. And one of the characters in GI, Joe would come in and they would tell them, you know, what not to do. And they would say, you know, thanks, Joe. And they would come in and they would say, you know, the more, you know, and knowing is half the battle and that's the GI Joe fallacy. One of the things that Lori Santos talks about is, you know, it's not that knowing is half the battle. And in fact, if we actually know we should be doing something and we're not doing it, it actually detracts from us and actually takes away from us. So, you know, the funny example that I use with my students is I, I'm not a big exercise person and I really like ice cream.

Felix (18:27):

I know I should exercise. I know I see less ice cream. I sometimes have difficulty doing that. But Krista, one of the things that you mentioned that I always mention with my students is we talk about social media and we talk about the toxic impact of social media. And we talk about how social media, especially for teenage girls, can be very detrimental. And I ask my students, say, how many of you agree with this data? How many of you agree with this research? How many of you would say that you feel that social media is having a negative impact on you? You're spending too much time on social media. And a lot of 'em will agree with that. And then I ask the follow-up question, how many of you right now are willing to make a commitment that you're going to be on social media, less, that you're not going to be doom scrolling, that you're not going to be retweeting and liking every, that you're going to spend more time with your friends and your family, you know, in real life.

Felix (19:13):

And a lot of them struggle with that. And a lot of them just can't make that commitment. And so, you know, in positive psychology, a big part of positive psychology is willpower and habit formation and trying to lead us away from bad habits and trying to foster better habits that are going to lead us to the outcomes and the results that we want. And, and so that's really one of the major takeaways that I want my students to have when they take my positive psychology class. Uh, it's also something that I talk about a lot with my colleagues. So you would also ask me in your first question, how I use positive psychology, only with my students, both with my colleagues as well. So I really do try to especially help my colleagues, especially the last couple of years, for better, or I graduated from the program at Penn in August of 2020. , so I graduated just at the beginning of the pandemic and just as we were going into, a hybrid schedule for teaching. And so what I really did last year, not only working with my students with a lot of these interventions, but also sharing with my colleagues as well, and trying to help my colleagues to be able to apply them in their lives, just so that we had some support so they could help themselves be able to deal with and cope with, the rigors of last school year. Also,

Craig (20:22):

I would like to unpack a little bit of this  I think, you know, when we think about human excellence, I think that we also recognize that there's a fragility to a human spirit, that it rises and falls with the emotions that one feels. And we also think about whether or not it's skill versus will, and there are just so many different elements that could be unpacked, but we have a very limited time. I know you wrote a piece about servant leadership and how important that is for young people that you serve, especially at the high school level. And I know that you also focus on restorative practices and sort of justice, like as a way to help students understand their impact– good, bad, and indifferent.

I would love to lean in a little bit more and, and understand what this looks like in your classroom when you have students who have various backgrounds and upbringings, and they may have this aspiration to flourish, but they may actually be homeless. They may very well be in a single-parent home. They very well may be impacted by trauma, or substance abuse. How do you help them navigate that in a way that still keeps their eye on what the north star may be?

Felix (21:51):

Sure. So I would respond to that by thinking about Craig, you kind of alluded to two different student populations. So the first student population you alluded to was the population that has suffered trauma, that has suffered homelessness, that maybe doesn't have the best or the most supportive family situation and home life.  There are a couple of elements there. The first one is psychological capital. And when we talk about psychological capital, we oftentimes use the hero acronym and there are four elements to psychological capital. So there's hope there's efficacy, there's resilience and there's optimism. And so one of the things that I try to do when I work with students, and one of the things that I teach students is how can you foster elements of psychological capital? So how can you become more resilient? And again, as you said, we have limited time here.

Felix (22:41):

I would encourage you and the listeners here in the audience. There's a wonderful book by Southwick, Southwick, and Charney on resilience. Also, Karen Reivich, who's a director at the Penn Resiliency Center has a really good book. And the Penn resiliency center has a lot of really good resources for teaching resilience skills in students. And one of the things that we know, and it ties directly to social, emotional learning is what are the relationships you have with your peers? What are the relationships you have with adults? And one of the things that we know that's really critical for students is if they have one caring adult in their life, hopefully, it's a parent or a family member, but if you have that one caring adult and oftentimes for students, it is a teacher how can that relationship that you have with that individual?

Felix (23:22):

How can that guide you? How can that help you? Something else we talk about? And this ties directly into both learned optimism and hope theory is your ability to be able to envision yourself in the future when you know, the future is going to be better. So something that we talk about from resilient studies is the Stockdale paradox. And this comes from Admiral James Stockdale, who was a prisoner of war during the Vietnam war. And the Stockdale paradox is the contradictory recognition that on one hand, yes, things in my life are very poor and very negative right now. But the contradictory realization is it's not always going to be this way, that at some point in the future, things are going to be better for me. And so being able to foster hope in our students and using some of the research, that's come out about hope theory from CR Snyder.

Felix (24:10):

And again, in some of the great resilience research that's come out, being able to use that with students and also one of the major parts of positive psychology. And this is something that really works with both populations - character strengths. Martin Seligman has said, that character strengths are the backbone of positive psychology, but being able to teach students what their strengths are, and really being able to help students understand not only what those strengths are, but how to productively use them, how to be able to lean into them and being able to rely upon our strengths and being able to do so in a productive fashion. The other population that you had alluded to though, is it's not just students that I teach that have been through trauma and been through adversity. It's also those students who haven't, but it's the relationship that those students have with that other population who has.

Felix (24:58):

And so something else that we talk about in my classroom and that I try to teach my students is developing empathy and compassion and perspective-taking. And one of the great ways that you can develop empathy and compassion is through perspective-taking, but it's also through servant leadership as well. So right now my students, and again, as Krista mentioned, we are in Pennsylvania. , one of the big programs that my students do in my school that I help out with is our mini-Thon, which is based upon THON held at Penn State University and raising money for four diamonds, which is an organization that raises money for families whose children are combating pediatric cancer at Penn State Hershey medical center. So talking about servant leadership and talking about developing compassion and empathy, my students maybe have not had to go through the trauma of illness.

Felix (25:43):

Although I certainly have had students raising money for children like themselves, who have had to go through that experience, they can develop that empathy and that compassion taking. And one of the things that we focus on in my student council at my school, our theme is kids helping kids. So how can kids help their peers and in doing that, develop that empathy and compassion? And so maybe I haven't had the same lived experience as you, but maybe I can also through taking have a better understanding of what it would be like if I was you. And that helps me to develop those elements.

Krista (26:15):

I am totally geeking out here because my strengths finder–my number one is being a learner. And so you just drop some amazing resources and I can't wait. Craig I know is also a learner and we're googling like, wait, who is that? What's going on? And so, our listeners know that in the note section, in the resources, we are going to link to all of these amazing resources. , and, and Felix, she reminds me of why I love talking to you because I can't wait, to learn all of these pieces. And you hit on such important SEL pieces from self-awareness and self-management to the pieces around empathy and compassion. And I've been for so long. I've been hearing educators kind of toss those words around. We need kids, who aren't empathetic. I'm like, but that's a very complex skill and you just hit on it where it has to start with perspective taking and then listening, like truly listening to somebody else's story. Somebody talked to me the other day about like heart listening, like opening up your mind, your heart. And then there's the empathy that you don't have to have that same experience, but you can tap into those feelings and then kindness with action. So you have the kindness shirt on, that's our com what are we going to do about this? What is our responsibility?

Felix (27:40):

Yes.

Krista (27:41):

To take care of our community because we are, I think, all connected… and some of the pieces that I'd like to throw in there too, is, as you were talking, reminded me of there are Developmental Assets from the Search Institute that talks about 20 internal assets and 20 external assets that we need to be thriving, and you hit on them with, what at our support systems in the community, in our peer groups. But then what do we have internally that helps us and motivates us to keep moving forward? And I loved I'm looking here like that idea of the…I'm looking back. I was like trying to type down some notes here and, and knowing that you have an op-ed in the future, and we know that our students' brains, the prefrontal cortex, where they can kind of look ahead, doesn't fully develop until they're older. And so how can we help them in their moments when they might not be seeing that around them? We can be that one caring, consistent person who helps be that bridge to a different future for them that they had not even envisioned before.

Felix (28:51):

Yeah. I, I think that for so many, I think every educator has a story of a student that they've been able to help an impact. And I think that all of us can all think back on our past. And we can all think about an educator that we had that had a major impact on us and maybe helped to see something that maybe we didn't see in ourselves and a skill that we have and, you know, our ability to be able to be something other than maybe that, you know, we otherwise would not have been able to have become, you know, I think though, just in listening, Krista, what you were saying, I, for me, and I think that one of the reasons why I was so excited about coming all on the podcast with both of you and talking about SEL is we know as educators and Craig, I know you have a background in school administration, you know, we measure what matters and what matters is measured, right?

Felix (29:39):

And so, you know, I feel that social, emotional education is so important. And yet I feel that for so many people, and especially maybe in the last year or so on one hand, the pandemic has shined a light on why this is so critical. On the other hand, I hear a lot of talks, especially in educational circles about learning loss and, you know, trying to catch students, uh, up and trying to make sure that our students are going to be, you know, at grade level. And certainly, that is important, but I think all of those skills and I, I have to say this, you know, we talk about these being soft skills. And I just have to say, I hate that term. I don't know how both of you feel about that. I hate the term soft skills I'm with

Krista (30:17):

You.

Felix (30:17):

I call them. So I call them cognitive skills and I feel they, and that's what I call them. And I feel that for us in schools, it's so critical that we do that. And I will tell you that one of our guest speakers, when I was at Penn, was Jane Gill and Jane Gill is a professor at Swarthmore. She's also been very heavily involved in the Penn resilience program. And, you know, one of the things that she, he talked to us about was we have the two report cards. So there's the report card that is oftentimes, you know, your grades. I, I have a grade in my history class. I have a grade in my English class. I have a grade in my math class, but then there's the other report card, which sometimes you get in elementary school. Definitely don't get it at the secondary level, but it's all of those skills that Krista, you just mentioned empathy, compassion, kindness, how are we developing them?

Felix (31:08):

How are you demonstrating them? How are you showing them? And, you know, I think that what's so interesting is if you talk to parents and you ask the parent, what do you want for your child? I think pretty much every parent is going to say, I want my child to happen. I want my child to be fulfilled. And I want my child to be able to use their talents and use their skills. Not only to make themselves happy and fulfilled but to be able, as you said, Krista, to be able to contribute to their communities, to be a valued member of their community, to be able to give back, to be able to help build something. And I think sometimes that we don't always do a good job in schools of being able to re-enforce that. I think sometimes that we're teaching what we're measuring, what we're valuing, there's a mismatch there. And I think that's why social emotional education is so critical. Being able to have conversations like this is so critical as well.

Krista (31:57):

 I am so happy to hear you say you call them cognitive skills because I've been having conversations with somebody else who keeps calling them non-cognitive skills. And I keep pushing back on that and I'm like, can you please, like, why do you think that they're not that their people aren't using cognition, all three parts of our brain, the limbic system, the reptilian system, the neocortex work together. , and it's not just a soft touch. We're talking about goal setting. We're talking about decision making and critical thinking skills and being curious, , looking at systems and the impacts on individuals. And there's a lot of cognition there. So you just made my heart happy. I just wanted to say that because I'm, and I'm sorry, Craig, that I jumped in. I'm sure you, I know you've got your questions as well, but you just totally made my heart happy when you said that.

Craig (32:48):

I do have some questions, but one of the questions I'm curious too, Felix, you just received a distinction, a keeper of the flame.

Felix (32:59):

Oh yes.

Craig (33:00):

So tell us a little bit more about this flame that you've been keeping?

Felix (33:13):

Well thank you for asking that. And it was a very unexpected honor. , so there was a gentleman who's very well known in the world of student activities. His name is Dr. Earl RO and Dr. RO, uh, was very active, up until his passing about 10 years ago in promoting student leadership and student engagement. , and you know, for him that was critical. And, that was really critical for me. And unfortunately, I never had the opportunity to meet Earl, but I'd met many other people, people and be able to work with many other people who were impacted and touched, uh, by Earl and Earl is the founder of the organization that is now the national association for student activities. And for me, I recognized very early on that, no matter what I was teaching my students in my history class or my government class, what they were going to remember from me was the lessons that they learned from me outside of the classroom.

Felix (34:04):

You know, I'm a teacher who firmly believes that we learn as much if not more outside of the classroom than we do in the classroom. And so certainly learning about history is important. You know, I just got done talking about the cold war. , and unfortunately with what's going on in Ukraine today, being able to use that as framing for my students, talking about world war II and talking about the decision to drop the atomic bomb and talking about the ethics of warfare, and was such a thing as ethics and warfare. And of course, how does that relate to social emotional learning? So what I'm teaching in my history class, in my government class, that's important, but the reality is if you talk to my students five years from now, they're not going to remember many of those lessons. What they are going to remember though, is coming to our mini thought and staying up all night with their friends and raising tens of thousands of dollars for a great cause.

Felix (34:51):

And I have to tell you what made my day was about an hour before I signed on this podcast. One of my former students whose home on spring break, came to visit me and we talked for about an hour we didn't talk at all about what she had learned in my class. We talked about her memories of when she was a student and she was here for our mini-Thon and what she was doing. But we also talked about what she's doing now at the college level and the skills that she learned as a leader and how she grew and how she developed and how she would not be the person that she is today and have had the opportunities that she has had had today, had it not been for, , the opportunity she had in high school. So I believe very passionately in student leadership and student engagement.

Felix (35:29):

So did Earl Ru and Earl founded the national association for student activities. , and we have a, it's an informal award. Uh, so whoever holds the award is the sole selector of the recipient of the next year's award. Uh, but the award recognizes that person who is the keeper of the flame and Earl's spirit and the person who takes what Earl started and this movement of student engagement and student leadership and is the person who really works with others. And so it was an incredibly touching award, uh, for me to be able to get it's very personally meaningful for all of us in the organization. , I was very fortunate to be selected by one of the leaders, in the student leadership division of the National Association for Secondary School Principals, somebody I became very good friends with and somebody I was able to work very closely with when I hosted the national student also conference in 2019.

Felix (36:19):

I'm very fortunate to be able to call her a friend and a colleague and a mentor as well. , and so she was last year's recipient and she chose me for it. And like I said, I was very touched by that and very unexpected as well, but I will tell you that I'm a better educator and a better person for knowing all of the colleagues that I've been able to meet in my work, working with student across the state and across the country in student engagement and student leadership. And there are some wonderful adults that are doing tremendous work that touches upon this, but also then overlaps and blend in with social, emotional learning, and are really trying to make schools into a safe place for students into a caring place for students into a great place for students, but using student leadership and engagement to be able to accomplish that and really giving students ownership and really teaching students those cognitive skills that they're going to need to be able to be successful.

Felix (37:07):

I'll end by saying, one thing that I firmly believe is that leadership is like compound interest. And what I mean by that is the earlier you start with it, the better you're going to get with it if you continue on. And so for me, when I'm teaching my leadership class when I'm giving students opportunities to be leaders in the community and in our school, I'm teaching them those cognitive skills, but I'm also teaching them the efficacy, which is also part of psychological capital that they can believe in themselves, that they know they can be a leader that they know they can be a change agent it's going to carry on in college and beyond for them.

Krista (37:39):

And self-efficacy is a part of social awareness. Just, just making that little connection there for people. Now, Craig, I know you

Craig (37:51):

I'm putting down that quote because that was powerful. You said leadership is like compound interest. It gets better over time?

Felix (37:59):

Yeah, it develops over time because, you know, again, I think about my students and I'm very fortunate to be able to teach two semesters of leadership classes. And I'm very part fortunate through a partnership with the University of Pittsburgh that my students can actually earn college credit, uh, through taking my leadership class here at high school.  We've actually been able to work to expand that program. So other high schools in our area are now offering that class through the University of Pittsburgh. But I think about my students who in high school are taking two semesters of leadership classes and then they're participating in my student government, or maybe they're, they're not, I have had students that are volunteer firemen. I've had students who are Eagle Scouts. , I had a young lady who was on the youth advisory council for Pittsburgh cares, which is a community service organization here in the Pittsburgh area.

Felix (38:42):

And she was going, and she was working with homeless populations, on the weekend in her spare time. So you don't have to be in the Student Council to be a student leader. Leadership can look different depending upon who you are and what your interest is. But if you're in my class and you're engaged in leadership and you believe in yourself and you're starting when you're 14, 15, 16 years old, you mean, wow, like those are opportunities. I know I didn't have. And I don't think you had, and I don't think many of your, you know, the audience had, but think about where that then takes you when you're 18 years old and you're walking onto a college campus for the first time and the confidence that you have yourself and the skillset you have in yourself to be able to hit the ground running and to really be able to take advantage of all of those opportunities you have in college.

Felix (39:22):

And then what's that going to mean for you moving on? You know, I've been very fortunate to be able to watch my students do some really incredible things over the years. , and I always say, I don't take any credit for their success. It is theirs. They work incredibly hard. They are incredibly passionate. , and I am in awe of so many of them, but I will say if I take credit for one thing, it's creating an environment where they can be successful and it's opening a door for them. And if I can be the door opener and I can be that person, then you know, I'm thrilled to be the facilitator. And fortunately, many of my students take it upon themselves to walk through that door, to become incredible, and to be able to flourish as well.

Krista (39:59):

That was me clapping it's before, like, what am I hearing? I want to stand up and be like, yes. And, and part of the search Institute talked about developmental relationships and it's one caring, consistent person, but the students themselves have said they want people who are going to open doors for them who are going to be connectors, who are going to show them opportunities. And that my friend is what you do every day. And I'm just in awe. That's awesome.

Felix (40:29):

Well, I appreciate it. And you know, one thing that I often have to remind myself is, and this is the flip side of this is tokenism and, you know, tokenism is, and one of the things we know about the research and tokenism is oftentimes it's adults that are very passionate about student engagement, but they only give student tokenistic ways of being able to be engaged and being able to be involved and so one of the things that we also know is that you know, and I talk to, and again, in my role with the Pennsylvania Association of Student Councils, I come across a lot of adults and I come across a lot of adults. They're very well, meaning they are passionate, they are caring, but their vision of student leadership is one where students are on the periphery and their vision student leadership is one where students learn by observing the adult, doing the work, and the adult being engaged.

Felix (41:17):

Uh, and that's not what I believe student leadership and student engagement is and what it's supposed to be. And that's really, that's not how people learn. We know that's not how people learn in a normal classroom. That's certainly how people develop leadership skills and leadership abilities as well. So, you know, the flip side of that is when you talk about giving students opportunities, you know, you really do have to be willing to give students real and authentic and meaningful opportunities. And Krista to what you were saying, it does have to be real and authentic, and it can't be something that's imposed by the adults because I've seen that. And it doesn't work because students are not interested in being told what they should be doing, what they ought to be doing. They're not interested in being told, well, this is a leadership experience that I've set up for you and I've determined for you and I've pre-planned for you.

Felix (41:58):

And you're just going to go through it. They're not interested and nor should they be. Quite frankly, we're not interested in it as adults and students shouldn't be either it's gonna be meaningful. It's gonna be authentic. It has to come from them. It has to be their passions, their desire, their vision, and you know, for my students, the reason in why they are so bought into events like our mini thought into the other projects that we do is because it is theirs, cuz it was their idea because it's, they're the ones who are leading it and they know the success or failure of it is going to come down to them. It is a real, genuine, authentic leadership experience. And fortunately, I'm at a school and in an environment where we're able to provide students with those types of opportunities and they flourish as a, they grow as a result. And that is critical as well. As you said, Krista, it's not just the adults, but also the entire environment. It is the entire community working together to give students those real opportunities. But as you said at the beginning, truly being willing to listen to students, to hear students, and to act upon what students are saying, they want, they need

Krista (42:55):

Craig. This reminds me a lot of you as a leader as well in the schools that you've worked in. I see a lot of synergies here and a lot of very similar mentalities and approaches to working with students at two different levels. Cause I know you worked with the younger kiddos and Felix is working with the high school students.

Craig (43:18):

Yeah. You're very kind. I recognize that this is hard work. That mind, body, soul connection is a lot that you have to facilitate every day. And it starts with us first. You know, we have to find ourselves centered and focused and understand that there's something bigger and greater and that has a lot to do with the human spirit. And if we can center all of the work and the conversations on how we connect from human to human in whatever ways we can. I think that we are better for it and reminding young people and the older folks around them that, Hey, this is an opportunity for us to help nurture and grow them and have them get curious about how they think, how they show up, and navigate things. But that if they are, you know, if they do really well to model the kinds of characteristics that we, we all truly believe in, then the world will be greater for it. And so I know I am greater because I have, you know, a couple of really great role models here with both of you Felix, and Krista, and continuing to learn, grow and see how a world can, can move.

Craig (44:35):

As I think about that mini-Thon looks like there's gonna be some dancing and stuff that's gonna happen.

Felix (44:40):

It's a long night but it's an incredible night. And to see the students, when you see that work pay off, and then they're able to experience that and be there and, and, you know, be with their friends and see the success that they have earned it is it's phenomenal. It's incredible. And I'm just humbled to be able to say that I am apart of it. I look at what my students do and I look at the support they provide each other, the support they provide members of the community they are phenomenal and I'm better for knowing them. I truly, I am.

Craig (45:10):

Wow. Wow. Well, Krista, we have to let Dr. Felix go at some point.

Krista (45:19):

Yes, we have to.

Craig (45:22):

Just for a moment we can capture and hug on him and hold him.

Krista (45:27):

Yeah. So, or come back again so that we can keep digging into the layers and ask more questions. And, , I do hope that you'll, you'll join us again because I have so much more, I want to learn about the hope theory and Stockdale paradox talking about resiliency and supporting our students to, so they know they can go in whatever direction they want and will have success and will be there supporting them along the way. , and so if you had to think of one piece of advice or takeaway you would give to our listeners out there who are in education, looking to support students, whether they're in kindergarten or middle school or school what is one thing that, that you would recommend or that you would like to leave them with?

Felix (46:19):

So I think, I'm gonna cheat if that's okay. I think I actually would say that I have kind of two takeaways that I would say. And the first one is - you know, for me, when people ask me about my interest in Positive Psychology, I really do. I oftentimes come back to, uh, a quote from Martin Seligman's flourish. And you know, I had known about positive psychology and it was something that I was interested in. But, I read something in his book. He was talking about positive education and the quote was, and I do have it written down here. So I hope you don't mind if I read it. The quote is, I want a revolution in world education. All young people need to learn workplace skills, which has been the subject matter of the educational system in place for 200 years.

Felix (47:00):

In addition, we can now teach the skills of the well-being of how to have more positive emotion, more meaning, better relationships, and more positive accomplishments and schools at every level should be teaching these skills. And I think for me, what I keep coming back to is we have so much research. We have so much data it's grounded in science. We know that it works for everybody, not just students, but everybody to be able to lead better and more flourishing lives. And we have the capacity to be able to implement these in schools and in his book, Martin San talks about Geelong grammar school in Australia. , but we can find examples much closer to home. So again, in Pennsylvania, where Krista and I are from the Shipley School in Philadelphia, which is a K-12 school, which is based entirely on a strengths approach and based entirely on using positive psychology and has truly infused that in everything that they're doing.

Felix (47:54):

And, you know, when we take a look at what schools are doing, and we talk about mindfulness techniques with, with students, and we talk about programs like the Penn resiliency project that schools are able to use. It's something that we can do it's cost-effective. We know it has an impact not only on wellbeing but also on student performance on school culture and on school climate. And, and I'll be honest with you. And I don't think that I'm going too far to say that I really feel this is a moral issue. If we have the tools and we have the knowledge to help our students and improve not only their learning but also their lives. If we don't take full advantage of that knowledge in these resources, then what does it say about us as educators? You know, for us, how could we not implement and apply these strategies if we know the impact and we know the benefit that they're going to have, and we're not using them, you know, what does that say about us?

Felix (48:47):

What does that say about the environments we're working in? And so I, I think for me, you know, the one takeaway that I, I would say for the listeners here is just that we have the tools that are available to us. We can be using them, we should be using them. We have to be using them and we need to be using them. , and I think the other one that I would say is really thinking about again, and we've talked a lot about this, what are the connections that we're building? What are the relationships that we have? And, and I would also say, we've talked a lot about students as well. We should, but we do need to focus on educators as well. And, you know, the reality is if you don't have well teachers and you don't have well, administrators, you're not going to have well students and you're not going to have a good system.

Felix (49:30):

And so it's as much about self-care and Krisin Neff, as another person who does, you know, has done wonderful work in self-compassion and self-forgiveness, and thinking about some of the work that's out there about what we can do for ourselves to be able to take care of ourselves, to be able to make sure that we can show up that we can be fully present for our students, that we can be fully present for our colleagues and our peers, and that we can create a truly great learning environment, you know, thinking about what we need to do and thinking about ourselves. And it's something that I talk to my students about. And it's something that I would share with teachers as well. You know, I know in the leadership realm, sometimes we like to give students opportunities. Sometimes I don't want to say it, I want to be gentle in the way I say this.

Felix (50:16):

Sometimes we give students opportunities and they're not ready for those opportunities, and we're setting them up for failure. And sometimes the best thing that we can do for a student is actually not giving them an opportunity because the reality is, if you can't take care of yourself you can't take care of others. And so for us as educators, working with student leaders, sometimes for me, it's about not giving a student an opportunity. And sometimes for me, it's helping to develop something in a student so that they can eventually have that opportunity in the future, but they're not ready for it yet. And if I give them that opportunity, it's gonna be setting up for failure, but that's as true for adults as it is for students. And it's about being able to think about taking care of ourselves and taking care of our colleagues and our school leadership so that we can be here and we can take care of our students and we can be present for them and we can meet them where they need. So that would be the other takeaway that I would have for everybody as well,

Craig (51:06):

A lot. It's a lot to hold on to. Like I feel full. Like I don't even need dinner.

Felix (51:20):

Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

Craig (51:21):

Yeah

Krista (51:23):

That's why I can't wait to go back and re-listen to this again, and again, and dig into those resources and  come back around again. So don't be surprised if there's an email for me in a couple of days.

Felix (51:34):

Absolutely. I love talking about this stuff. I love sharing it and I'm happy to be able to do so on this podcast. So again, thanks for, uh, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.

Krista (51:42):

Oh, thank you.

Craig (51:44):

Well young people, we have had the pleasure of having Dr. Felix Yerace here, and we are doing a very big round of applause for him as he continues to keep the flame alive for all of our young people across so many communities. We thank you and we want to wish you and the rest of our wonderful listening audience a great day and continue to stand in the light.

Felix (52:15):

Absolutely. Thank you.