009: Engaging and Empowering Students through SEL with Dr. Chris Jones

Craig (00:00):

Hey, SEL in EDU family! It is incredible to be here today. How are you holding up, Krista?

Krista (00:09):

I am doing fantastic, Craig. I just came off of a week-long retreat with the Resonance Ed team. And we bumped that right into the Pennsylvania ASCD conference. So as you all know, we are powered by Pennsylvania ASCD. And we just had an amazing conference at the sweetest place on earth, Hershey, Pennsylvania, and got back last night. And I had a chance to work with some amazing high school students today. So I'm flying high today. How are you?

Craig (00:39):

I am feeling good. And I am geeked to the gods because we have someone pretty impressive who makes me smile! This makes my whole heart smile. I can't wait to introduce THE Dr. Chris Jones. Let me just talk a little bit more about him because he is here in the atmosphere. Why don't I go ahead and tell you, Krista, and our audience a little bit more about Dr. Chris? 

Krista (01:05):

I would love to hear it.

Craig (01:07):

Okay. Dr. Chris Jones is head of school, a principal administrator at Whitman Hanson school. I mean, he's so amazing that he recently won the 2022 Massachusetts school counselors association administrators a year. When he is not just rocking it in regards to really just powering the hearts and spirits and energies of so many young people around him. I mean, he's doing a ton of things. He has his podcast, SEE to Lead, which I'm grateful that I had an opportunity to participate in. And there, he talks to many people about leadership character. And so many other things like... you going to check out the podcast. I know it's on all platforms, and he'll get to talk about that in a minute. He is someone who I recently saw may have participated in like a polar plunge or something like that. You know, he's cool enough that he will show his humility in was some young people to pour water on him. But he is an incredible leader and friend, husband, partner, father, and everyone around him I know feels ignited and empowered and amazingly blessed to be in company with him. So I'm so excited to introduce Dr. Chris Jones.

Krista (02:52):

Hi Chris. It's pleasure to meet you. I have to say I heard award-winning and polar bear plunge and I'm sorry, but I’ve got questions! So hold on. You let some young people pour water on you? I need to know more about this.

Chris (03:10):

Well, kind of, sort of… halfway. We did a Best Buddies, polar plunge, and basically, it's kind of like the ice water bucket challenge and it's to raise money for best buddies that then gets donated to best buddies. So we have a Kindness Week that leads up to it and we do all kinds of different things. So we do like Autism Awareness, we hold a raffle, it's called “Dunk the Doc.” People purchase tickets and all that money goes to Best Buddies. And what the Science Department did this year is the teachers bought a ton of tickets, and as a result, ended up winning and gave the winning ticket to our curriculum coordinator who was retiring this year. And so he made sure to pour it nice and slow over my head before everybody else did everything. And we had the Hanson Fire Department show up with their ladder truck. We went to the far side, in front of our school, and then they sprayed us all down with fire hoses as we tried to make our way back into the front of the school. Cool. 

Chris (04:22):

So that's the kinda stuff I do, between that and whipped cream pie in the face at the rally. Again for raffle winners and things like that. I will do anything that can show the students that I'm all in. I want to have fun with them so that when we need to be serious, we can be serious. But you going to balance that with fun. So, the way Craig introduced me, I'm going to ask for an audio clip or something. Can I reuse that? That's like, it's like out of this world!

Craig (04:56):

You got it, man. You got it. You got it.

Krista (05:05):

So tell me, you were talking about Kindness Week and really working with students and balancing. Oftentimes we talk about balancing the challenge and care… the fun and the learning. And, when we talk about social emotional learning in general, just in this little bit that we've been talking, you exude that to me and the connections that you're able to make and the lighthearted way of connecting with people. Can you tell me more about where that comes from? What has led you to use that as a way of building a connection with people and how do you keep that balance with the students, where they're having fun and learning? Challenging and stretching them and also letting them know that you care?

Chris (05:53):

Boy, that's a big question. I'm kind of an older guy, so I going to think way back. I think it's because my high school experience was not ideal. And so that has fed into my personal “why,” my personal vision of making the educational experience better for everyone involved - students, parents, teachers, everyone. And, when I went to school, it was “you don't, you can't interact with teachers on any kind of relationship level” or anything like that. That just kind of sucks the life out of school. I mean, you, you go to elementary school and you see teachers having a good time with kids and kids are loving elementary school. And sometime around fifth grade, I watched it happen with my own kids. Sometime around fifth grade… Man, we do a heck of a job killing the love of education or school. I should say because we take the education piece out of school.

Chris (06:50):

See, we get too caught up. As students get older in the content piece, the standards piece, the boy, the “better behave a certain way” piece. That's more about control than teaching students, how to behave properly in different situations. Look, there's a time to get sprayed with fire hoses. There's a time to hold signs to music in the morning. There's a time to sit down and eat your vegetables. I call it and do that work that you might not want to do so that you can get better.  so that's that just kind of led me to saying, there's going to be a different way to approach this. There's going to be a better way that supports students, engages them in the process and then empowers them to do better for themselves because, without any of those steps, kids are going to become disengaged, disenfranchised, and just do the whole idea of “I'm in school, whatever.” And that's just not a way to go through life or get better.

Chris (07:52):

I don’t know if I answered your question.

Craig (07:53):

You absolutely did. Thank you. I know that you're a big connector. Those who do not know, you could check him out on Twitter - @Dr CSJones, where you lay a lot of gems out for the community. And I know that that's centered on your experience as a leader, what you want for young people and teachers and leaders around them. How important that is. There was a question in one of the Twitter chats that focused on your values, expectations, and vision for those who you work with and who you serve. You talk about how that shows up in leadership. You say, “Hey, you hold conversations.” I know you journal; you create videos. But you also are very focused on being purposeful, acting with integrity, and building character through your daily decisions. And also by your example. I know that the world is better for you being in the world and serving in the way that you do. We all are curious as to what continues to fuel that passion that you have in regards to refocusing those around you so that they keep their eyes on that vision of being purposeful, acting with integrity, and building character.

Chris (09:36):

It's all in talking to people. It's all in being around and making sure.. it's almost like mining for nuggets and then sharing them. And I'm so glad you asked that question because I have a present-day thing that just happened to me where I was like, “I don't even know how to share this, but there's going to be a way to share it.” So, I was forced into it. We're talking about school choice in my high school. We're a regional high school and I have a catch-phrase that I use in everything I put out for the school. When I talk to eighth-graders and I say things like, “You don't have to be a Panther. You get to be a Panther.” That's the attitude I want in my school, in my community.

Chris (10:23):

I want something special that people want to be a part of. And then we make the guarantee that we'll keep you a part of us for as long as you're around. You can always come back to your home, the Panthers. And so, we're talking about school choice and the school committee is wondering whether to re-up school choice and I'm going to dance around that a little bit. So I don't get into too much trouble, but they're thinking about whether to re-up it or not. And I happened to be at a committee meeting when they were talking about it. So I was asked to talk. I did. And, they were looking for data. And so I asked them what kind of data, because now you're talking my language a little bit. They didn't really have the questions that they wanted to be answered or anything like that.

Chris (11:06):

So I said, I'm just going to get you some qualitative data that we can look at and I'll get you some stuff - scores, sports, things like that. So I ended up calling every school choice family that had sent their parents to our school for the past five years. And I asked them a simple question. First, I thanked them for choosing Whitman Hanson Regional High School told them how much it meant to us that they chose us. Then, I asked them why they chose us. What was their decision for choosing us? And if we lived up to that original expectation, because I tell all the students and parents, as they come in, I said, “Look, you're leaving your most prized possession with us. The most prized possession in the world; you're trusting us with them. And so we've going to do right by you.”

Chris (11:56):

Well, the answers that came in about the culture are awesome. “We love the community. It's the best choice we ever made. You have so much to offer the students. You make things to offer the students. If they have an idea where they don't fit, you make that opportunity for them. Your academics are on point. Your teachers are incredible and are so supportive in the classroom.” 

So I get all this information. You want to talk about getting jazzed up. I'm getting jazzed up, thinking about it. So I ask questions, right? I ask informed questions. Whenever I start to feel a little sluggish or feel a little slow, I dig into an area and I really reflect on maybe why I'm feeling that way and what areas I need to look at to improve. That's not always an easy conversation.

Chris (12:42):

That's not always a fun reflection to have, but I always find that there are some nuggets I uncover that are like, “Yeah, this is why we do this.” I could be falling down 8 out of 10 times and then say, why am I falling down 8 times? Change that to 7out of 10 times. And I'm like, “Yeah, this is why I'm doing it.” And it all circles back to improving the educational experience for everybody involved, because that's the only way we get people to learn. You don't learn when you're someplace where you don't like being.

Krista (13:17):

One of the things that has… really several things that have struck me from what you've just said. As a data person myself (and I would use that term loosely - I'm working on my dissertation - I'm hoping to finish in the next two months) 

Chris (13:37):

Go get it, go get it. 

Krista (13:39):

[laughing] It’s been a long journey.  But I love the piece that you said when you're not sure, you go mining and you look for that qualitative data. And I really feel like that piece is overlooked because we often in education, we’re looking for the quick data (the numbers like course rates or attendance). But I think that the power and the beauty come in the stories from people. And I love how you go seek that out. So I really appreciated that. And the other piece was, and Craig, you mentioned this, the focus on and understanding yourself and how you relate to other people. When you have that firm sense of self and your own core values, I truly believe it allows you to have more meaningful, authentic relationships with others because you are grounded in your “why,” and it allows you to think about your own experiences.

Krista (14:39):

We want students who are seen, who are valued, who are respected. And so that, and what I'm hearing is that grounds everything you say, you think, and you do, which is the integrity piece. I still do work with high school students now. And I hear that from them. So many times, we give them space to share their stories and it's about wanting to belong, to be seen. And the fact that you go out and find out what they need, create those connections and those opportunities for them are powerful. I sometimes feel that maybe in high school, we make assumptions that students don't need that anymore. That they're practically adults and grown or that they're kids and they can't handle things. And so that empowerment piece my heart fills hearing you talk about that.

Chris (15:36):

They need even more as they get older. I mean, there's the idea that we give them less voice as they get older. Whoever came up with that idea? It's funny because I… Hey, look, I'm old, right? I don't walk their path these days. So I don't know. I, boy, I can make a judgment because I've had plenty of experience, but I don't know. And we sit around a lot and talk about how people learn best through stories. It's a known fact, you learn best when you hear a story, because then you connect that experience to it. And then we're not going to listen to this. Like, when's the last time we've listened to the story of a student? And two things that we did at my school - perfect example of these - it started with our ELL students, right?

Our ELL population is growing and growing and growing. So we formed a World Cultures Club and they get it's awesome. They give they cook food, we do dances, we learn some language, and then we call it a day. It's after school. And so I had them come in front of the faculty. So here are these ELL students at a faculty meeting, because my faculty meetings aren't normal, and they have all the faculty sit there and they pass some papers out and they start reading from this paper in a different language. Now, instantly the level of discomfort of the faculty members and they're sitting there and they're trying to follow along. Even our World Language teachers, they're sitting there, and they're trying to follow along. You can see them getting lost. I had one faculty member walk in late. He stopped and he looked. He's like, “what did I just walk into?”

And he said that out loud. So everybody kind of chuckled. And then the students got about halfway through that. Then they started giving them directions. They told everybody to look up to them and they started giving them directions and things to do. And the faculty's looking at them like, “What are you talking about?” And they stopped. And they [the students] said, “We know you're trying. We're not saying you aren't, but what you just felt is what we go through in your class every single day.” And that was just so powerful. Then, we've recently formed a No Place For Hate group. And you have in any school, but especially in high school, you have the culture, then you have the hidden culture - what's going on underneath that you don't necessarily see? And the students came in front of the faculty meeting and talked about their lived experience in our hallways and have students that are of color.

Chris (18:12):

And it was just so much… it was so powerful to listen to them and look for them to be able to stand there and say, “Yes, people sometimes do say stuff to us in hallways.” And there are teachers that turn away and don't address it, whether they're uncomfortable or anything. And they did it in a way where they weren't calling out. But I just had a meeting with them after school for a while today. And they asked me if I could schedule department meetings for them to go speak to individual departments because they feel they can have a better conversation with smaller groups of people than in front of the whole faculty. And, while yes, they still do face discrimination practices, they're dealing with it. And they're seeing that they're making progress and traction. Their voices are being heard and they're empowered to make change in our school. So I don't know why we would not listen to individual stories of students.

Krista (19:10):

One of the pieces that I really am hearing is - and because I think about this myself -  is that as adults, we can choose to remove ourselves in a lot of ways from situations that make us feel uncomfortable. But we don't always see it from the view of the students. And to give the students the opportunity to demonstrate for us how they feel on an ongoing basis is more impactful than reading about something or seeing it on television – actually experiencing that and how empowering for those students to get a chance to stand up and to share their stories. And so thank you for sharing that. Craig, may I ask one more question before… I know you've got questions!

Chris (19:56):

Oh, Craig's just waiting in the wings on me. 

Krista (19:59):

I know. Okay. Could I put one out there and then we can come back to it? You said my faculty meetings are not typical or usual. I don't want to drop that.

I feel like there could be some gems there, all on how we could help maybe inspire. And, you just gave us a great example right there, but how we can build a sense of community amongst staff in a way that doesn't seem mundane and boring and like, “Oh, well that could have been an email.”

Chris (20:30):

Oh God. Yeah. The faculty meeting that could have been an email. I bought my school psychologist a Christmas present at my last school. It was a coffee mug that said “That last meeting could have been an email.” But yeah, I don't believe in faculty meetings like that. And I'll give just one tip before we let Craig jump in. Because he's kind of just smiling, waiting for me there. And just one quick tip, do not start a faculty meeting without going over shoutouts. Simple tip - you open up a faculty meeting. Welcome everybody. Say, Hey, I just got some shoutouts to give you. Then, give shoutouts, but you giving a shoutout is yeah. Okay, cool. Because you're the boss and stuff like that. No, no, no, no. Then you open it up and you open it up to faculty to give each other shoutouts because we get busy.

Chris (21:21):

Right? We run around; we keep our head down. We don't always notice what other teachers are doing and that needs to be pulled out. That needs to be thrown in front of faculty. So faculty can hear it. And it got to a point where my Special Ed Director in the building or coordinator, she offered we do a lunch every other Thursday. Our students cook lunch for the faculty out of our culinary program. And she offered a free lunch to the person that had the best forms that they were filling out on the students, giving back to the Special Ed Department as updates because those updates are always tough to get back. And I going to fill this out and this is kind of an extra. Those forms that they were looking for, the SpEd Dpartment would get together and say who had the best, most complete, most helpful forms. And they'd award them a free lunch ticket as a shout up. So things like that.

Krista (22:21):

Yeah. Thank you.

Craig (22:24):

So, since we're talking about meals…

Chris (22:30):

This where we got off the rails last time Craig, come on, man.

Craig (22:34):

We good. We good? We good? We good. We good? I promise, I promise I'm going to make the connection. I'm going to make the connection. So this reminds me of something you shared in the community. A while back, you might not even remember, but it was a focus on “pie crust character.” And you shared just a little video and I thought it was very impactful. My question for you, which is definitely off-script, but I think you can handle it. How would you describe “Pie Crust Leadership?” So I think the audience would love to know what Pie Crust Character is. It's a gem I tell you, but if you want to elevate that and talk about how could that how could we look at that from a leadership lens? I think that that could be powerful for the audience. Would you share a little bit?

Chris (23:35):

No, I'm trying to think. Because you went, man, you went back in the archives for that. And that's something that my wife triggered in me. Because we were talking about different pie crusts and stuff like that. So for all your listeners, I love pie. I'm just going to say that right off the front. So, Pie Crust Character is… it's there. It's good looking, but it's flaky and it crumbles. So while it may taste good at first and everything, it crumbles. There's no substance to it. So, that's just it in a nutshell and because I try to keep… Man, I'm long-winded so I try to keep those videos short. But that the idea. That it's weak, it crumbles and it looks good. So you don't want Pie Crust Character. Pie Crust Leadership, making that jump is something that looks good, but it crumbles when it comes right down to it.

It's the idea that you preach a good game and you talk a good game, but you're not backed up by your values, your core belief system that will help you withstand any of the struggles that you're going to hit, any of the problems that you're going to come across. There are some, there are some difficult issues that come up and some unpopular issues that come up. And if you don't have your head screwed on straight about your values and what you really believe education to be, you're going to make the wrong decision. You're going to cave to pressure. You're going to crumble like that pie crust does when you're trying to be so gentle, pulling it out of that whole pie. So that idea of leadership, you have to have your values. You have to have a clear vision that you follow and if it doesn't align to your vision, it doesn't belong in your actions. And that's what you that's Pie Crust Leadership or that's not Pie Crust Leadership.

Craig (25:33):

It resonated with me so much and I don't think that you knew. Like it stayed there with me. And I mean, we both carry a love of pies. It was Pi Day recently, you what I'm saying? And so, oh yeah, it made me think about that, but it made me think about the situation where you're talking to young people. And like there was, there's some young people calling me currently right now on a little situation that we have going on - very much about authenticity and trustworthiness among the staff. You just talked about the fact that you have some young people who have heard some remarks that are very hurtful and harmful and they want to see they want action.

Craig (26:17):

And, so they want to know that this is all of the work that we've done, all of this culture building, and culture shifting that we've purported is not just superficial that there really is some heart to it. And that it requires us to have conversations, share contacts and perspective. And it made me think about there are some people who are performative and young people know it. They could sniff it out; they know like, “You know what, no, that's not real sugar. You didn't use good butter, honey…”

Chris (26:55):

That's that right.

Craig (26:57):

You know, that might be the crust, but that ain't real. I don't taste the savory. I think they know when you are living into those values and you are actually living and leading with integrity. And so I really found that to be profound. It was the gem you left for us. And I just wanted to lift it up today. So thank you.

Chris (27:19):

No, I appreciate that. And yeah, I love pie. So, win-win.

Krista (27:26):

Favorite kind of pie?

Chris (27:29):

D - all the above. My favorite pie, because I'm not a cake person, is key lime pie.

Chris (27:39):

So tart that your salivary glands, like they get… when you take that first bite.

Craig (27:47):

Wow.

Chris (27:48):

That was boring. You needed to know, but it's all good.

Krista (27:52):

So I'm going to make a connection here. So when I hear you say that, it makes me think about people and connections too. And sometimes misconceptions we have about people, right? Where we first meet somebody and we're like, “Ooh, Ooh, I'm not so sure… like, Hmm, I'm not sure, I don't know. I need to know more. Or my first inclination may not have been true. And, how do we continue to build, to come back and to build that and find more about that person? So I'm thinking of about community building too. And we, even if we have the same vision, there might be times where we all have different approaches to getting to that vision. So it might be somebody else's approach might be more hard than what we are used to. So how do you find when you have different people or different approaches here that might not always jive with the way that you would think about doing something, do you mind? I know we just took a huge leap from pies, but…

Chris (28:59):

Oh, I'm here, I'm here.

Krista (29:01):

How do you work through that? As a leader who has strong core values and build that sense of community?

Craig (29:11):

Hmm.

Chris (29:11):

I start by realizing, accepting and professing that I'm a flawed individual. I don't have all the answers and my values may not be somebody else's values. So maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle. And so this is why I said, I'm right with you because I'm going to make another food reference. And it was another video. Well, it was a video or it was a blog. I can't remember, but it was, don't mention the squash and now shocker, here's an alert right here. I like Thanksgiving. So my wife, every year, God bless her. She puts on a spread like you would not believe. And she's Italian. So 24 pound turkey, all the fixins. You’re going to have lasagna and you going to have the Italian stuffing. I am like “get out.” So she does amazing things in the kitchen while I go play around and get to watch a football game.

Chris (30:15):

So Thanksgiving's my favorite holiday, but I remember maybe two years ago, maybe three years ago, she made this massive dinner and there's the squash sitting there. And she does what she can to kind of doctor it up. She puts maple syrup in it and stuff like that. And the dinner was phenomenal, the squash, “eh.” And so she asked me how everything was at the end, we're cleaning up and everything. She asked me how everything was and now me being me, still a husband in training. I said, “Hey, everything was good, sweetheart. But the squash was a little off.” No, I didn't say that. So I put that filter on and I thought to myself, before I answered. I just had a phenomenal meal. Like I want to go lay down and fall asleep and I'm going to let one piece of squash or one squash that was slightly off ruin it… especially when I'm dealing with somebody that is a human being and that has so many good things about them.

Chris (31:18):

They have flaws much like I do. I'm going to throw that person out? Because of a flaw that might not be right? Or because of something that might not sit right? No, we don't do that. So that's how I deal with people that have different visions than me. Hey, I'm not here to lie. There are people that get under my skin that I say “you are so far off the reservation that I'm not having anything to do with you” because that's a decision I have to make for healthy purposes. But really, we need to make sure what we've already left, that train's kind of left the station. We need to get the train back in the station. We need to treat people like human beings. We don't need to treat people a certain way because of their political views, because of the color of their skin, because of their religious beliefs, because of how they identify. We need to treat people like human beings. And until we realize that everybody's flawed, especially ourselves, we can't do that. So that's how I approach people in the community.

Krista (32:25):

That's the message that in working with the teenagers today, we talked about. There are more of you here than there are of the staff, and you can be the change that you want to see here. If you want more inclusion, be more inclusive. And from Gandhi, his words, be the change you wish to see. Maya Angelou… Craig, we've talked about this before, “when you know better, you do better.” But as young adults, they don't always see the older adults in their lives always presenting well, making the most respectful choices or caring choices in the way that we treat each other. And I think that you're really humanizing the fact that we're all on this journey and we're learning and growing together. And we acknowledge that we can open ourselves up to one another.

Chris (33:20):

You know, it's so true because when we look at students, right, say there's that student that aggravates us, or that bothers us or whatever. And we're like, oh man, they just won't do anything. And blah, blah, blah, blah, all the stuff you hear. And then you see them five years later and they've made something to themselves because they found that within them. And you look at them and say, oh, well, yeah, they're a good kid. You know, maybe you chuckle about the things that got you so upset last time that you just couldn't look past to see the rest of the person there. I mean, people are people. That's why I love the idea that you said we're on this journey together. It's a journey. And I always talk about continuous improvement and it's not that we need to continuously improve because we're not good where we are, but if we're as good where we are now, think about how much better we could be just by taking one more step forward. And then one more step forward after that, just a little bit, nothing huge. You could be in places you've never even dreamed when you started the journey.

Craig (34:28):

Wow. I’m curious. I know that we're, closing in on time. We've talked about food as an very interesting medium for conversation. We should just really have, have like a cooking show. I think we should just do it like, that that would be dope. So my question is ignited by this, there are a number of leaders who I want to believe whether or not principals, assistant principals they may be, clinical psychologists, teacher leaders - there's just a wide range of people who are working towards the betterment of young people we serve, but are waylaid by a very turbulent environment, whether or not it's the pandemic… it could be race, it could be gender, a whole host of things that are happening.

Craig (35:25):

But I know you have a very deep toolkit, that you come with every day in regards to leading by example, leading with integrity and continuing to push us to live and, and lead in purpose. So if you were to come up with a recipe of key ingredients that you believe leader should hold onto garner or sharpen in this time, especially since we're going into spring, people have a lot of feelings and sentiments. They trying to get through, there's some new leaders who are going to listen to this call. They follow you. We know it and are looking for a quick recipe that they can hold onto just to get them to the end that they want to bring their squad with them to the end and also get ready for the new, what would be part of that recipe that you would offer?

Chris (36:22):

Part of that recipe I would offer. You have to start with a base of values. You have to get clear on what you value and make sure that's what you focus on. And now, by getting clear on what you value, see that's the difference with a school, right, with an organization. What are your organization’s values? You can have values and you can be charging towards your values, but if none of those values match up or align with the values of the people that you serve at your school, it doesn't really matter. So you have to sit down and realize what the organization’s values are and stick with those. So that's the base that you're going to start with. And then you're going to have to add tenacity because once you're clear on those values, you have to be tenacious in making decisions based on those values and withstanding the storm that you're going to have to weather when those values are challenged.

Chris (37:19):

and then you need a culture. And I don't mean a climate. A climate is you do something every once in a while and cool things are happy while you're doing it. And then it just goes back to nothing. Culture is long-lasting. Culture is how we do things here. And once you get those three things and you start making decisions, then it's the decision thing. You have to be able to step back and take a positive perspective on things. It is so easy to not take a positive perspective on things and so many problems that we have. If we just flipped the script and looked at it from a different angle, we'd say, “well, that's not too bad!” And we'd be able to come up with an answer, say you're running around and you're late for work. And because somebody's driving in front of you super slow, right?

Chris (38:09):

Well, they may be scared on the road and worried about what they're doing. Say you are driving on the road and somebody rips past you and you say, oh my God, look at that maniac driving. And then you're late the next day. And you're ripping by people. You don't stop to think that maybe that person's late, maybe something's going on. Maybe they just going to call and their wife's having a baby. You don't know. So we, you have to have perspective as a leader, you have to be able to step back and say, “there might be more at play here” and you have to be able to ask good questions. I don't care if you're laying awake at night. I judge my days by if I can go to sleep with a peaceful mind at night, because then I know I've lived by my values.

Chris (38:55):

I don't care if you have to lay in bed and rectify that balance sheet every day. And think of questions that you need to ask about yourself and what you're doing. I don't care if it happens in the shower in the morning. I don't care if it happens while you're running three miles. I don't run three miles. But, however you get that done, you have to ask those questions. So it's the whole idea of values, tenacity, building a culture, being positive, adjusting your perspective. And if you do those five things just to start, then, then you can really be onto something.

Krista (39:33):

Craig, you ever meet those people and you hear, and they're talking and you're like, oh my gosh, like I wish you were a leader that I had in my school district. I wish you were in Pennsylvania.

Chris (39:51):

Pennsylvania's nice.

Krista (39:53):

Some parts.

Chris (39:54):

Yeah.

Krista (39:56):

It is beautiful. We're having some, like most, any other, political ups and downs, but I am so inspired by your leadership. And I love the fact that you are standing true to your core values. That's been a journey that I've been on the last couple years and really coming back to that and that grounding piece is so powerful. And that that's a piece that is so important to you and the connections that you have with staff and with students, keeping in mind that we want to empower people and grow together. And, I've just really, really enjoyed hearing from you and this conversation. Craig, thank you. So you were telling me, you're like, “oh wait, I've got this amazing person coming on” and you are so right. And I'm just in awe of you. Thank you. Can you please tell us again how we can follow you on social media and get more of this goodness on a regular basis?

Chris (40:56):

Sure. Princip

Chris (41:07):

What I was going to ask if I could add two thoughts and that, that completely knocked him outta my head, man. I've got one, but I forget them now, but here's my Twitter handle - the easiest way to reach out, and get in touch with me is through Twitter. That's at @DrCSJones. You can reach me at drchrissj@gmail.com. I'll answer emails, things like that. Just somewhere in the subject line. Let me know what it's about. So I don't think your spam and toss you. One of the things I was going to mention is the whole idea of that one lost me. I thought I had it, but it lost me. So I'll go onto the second one.

Chris (41:59):

You know, our communities, our world right now is in such dire need of leaders. There's we talk about a teacher shortage. We talk about a principal shortage and soon we'll be talking about a superintendent sort shortage, the pipeline thing, but let's be honest. What we have is a leadership shortage, and I truly believe that teachers are leaders. We need to start making students leaders. We need to start. Could you imagine if a teacher and this is because, and this all circles back to my being a teacher leader, principal, and SEE to Lead and all that. S stands for supporting, E for engaging and empowering. I do that for teachers. Can you imagine teachers picking up on that modeling piece for me and utilizing those things in their classroom and empowering students to be leaders? What kind of world are we looking at?

Chris (43:02):

If we're graduating leaders, we're not graduating state assessment passers or AP scores. No, we're graduating leaders. We're graduating good human beings that are out doing good in the world, have a good head on their shoulders. And who knows, maybe they've peaked academically where they're at. Maybe they're going into technical learning. Maybe they're going on to college. Maybe they're going to be the next NASA scientist. But if they're a good person, if they're capable of leading because they've learned that in school. And they've been given that opportunity in school that opens up a world for them to do good and realize they can go further than they ever thought.

Craig (43:48):

So y'all.

Chris (43:49):

That was the second one. I can't think of the first one.

Craig (43:54):

All I was going to say is this is so y'all know why I have so much love for Dr. Chris Jones. He is a real deal. If I had some young people running around, I would want them to experience him in their fullness. Great. Again, there is going to be such amazing gems that are going to come from this. If nothing else, we want to make sure that we continue to send you all love and light. And, for our young people, let's make sure we continue to stand in the light.