010: All Learning is Social and Emotional with David Adams

Craig (00:00):

Hello. Hello, SEL at EDU family. We are so elated to have you join us again for another episode. Krista, how is it holding up in this spring season?

Krista (00:16):

It's fabulous. I have been up since 5:30. I got a 90-minute trail walk in already, which is not usual for me. So I'm feeling good. And I'm super excited about our guest. I was Googling and trying to learn more, and I'm kind of fangirling a little bit. So I am going to let you introduce him. How are you doing today real quick?

Craig (00:39):

I'm doing well. This is, you know, it is a good Friday, so by the time our listeners hear it… this is Good Friday for us in the Northeast. We have our spring break coming up, and I am excited to be able to finally start an aboveground garden. I've never done that before, but I'm excited and geek to do that. Find some time at somebody's beach or water because I'm not able to travel as much because you know, I just got a, a new home and gotta invest in a new home. But I will definitely enjoy a great staycation. So that's coming up.

Krista (01:19):

Nice. I have a quick question about the above-ground garden. I need a little more clarity, please.

Craig (01:29):

Yeah. So what I am planning to do, I've never done. So my dad has got a great “green thumb.” He has grown and continues to grow vegetables and fruits. And he goes right into the ground. So he'll go into the earth right in the backyard and start creating this plot. I'm looking at starting an above-ground garden bed. So it's just really some two-by-fours. And you have, maybe some type of bed that you can place above the ground that I could start with, or I could do some pots and actually create like tomato plants or strawberry plants. They grow up on a vine in their own self-contained situation. 

Krista (02:16):

Well, thank you for that. Because I'm seeing a lot of threads and analogies, we could be making around growing plants - above-ground, under-ground - and our topic today.

Craig (02:29):

Yes. All learning is social and emotional. Well, you know, we could keep on talking because that's what we do, but I think it is important to introduce our guest, Dr. David Adams. I am elated. I had an opportunity to meet him in New York at an Urban Assembly event some years ago and he’s incredibly charismatic, but caring and generous in spirit. I mean, he had such an electric but humble feel in the space. I was honored that I had an opportunity to spend time and break bread with him, and we've been connected for a number of years now. So I'm so super excited that he, I mean, is super busy, like super busy, that he was able to find a little pocket of time to share with us.

Craig (03:28):

So, before we welcome him to the podcast and just let him shed his light and love on the world. Let me share a little bit more about who this man is. David is the Chief Executive Officer of the Urban Assembly. He started with UA in 2014 as the Director of Social Emotional Learning, where he created the Resilient Scholars' Program, a unique approach to integrating SEL into curriculum and classroom practices across the UA network. The Resilient Scholars' Program has grown into a national program serving districts in Los Angeles, Houston, Syracuse, and Boston. The UA is supporting me and my community as well as other cities.  As the Senior Director of Strategy, David has led the expansion of the organization to a model provider of school support with an emphasis on innovation and equity in public education. In 2021, he received a Champion of Equity Award from the American Consortium for Equity and Education. He sits on the board of CASEL and is the author of The Educator’s Practical Guide to Emotional Intelligence, and a co-author of the textbook, Challenges to Integrating Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Programs in Organizations. He is a Civil Affairs Officer in the Army Reserve and holds an M.Ed in Educational Psychology from Fordham University. And he's a dynamic dad as well. Few people may know that, but he is an incredible father. I'm so excited and honored and humbled to welcome Dr. David Adams.

David (05:03):

Well, thank you, Craig. Thank you, Krista. Listen, I wish I could be back in Boston with you right now, really experiencing that joy that you just brought together. Very excited to be on the show. Craig, I remember I came to visit Boston. We did a lap around the school back when you were a principal. We got really right into the situation, and you taught me a lot about growth and how to focus on growth in order to reorient systems and structures toward things that matter. And I just had an opportunity to write in the Daily News, that same notion of hoping that move the New York City system towards growth. So appreciate all the things that you're doing. Craig, keep the faith and stay strong out there. I see your work, and I'm just very excited to be in community with you today.

Craig (05:48):

Love, Man. Krista, what are your thoughts? I know that you already had shared earlier you couldn't wait, so go ahead, kick it off. Like I feel like I got a small glimpse into David, but go ahead.

Krista (06:08):

I do. I have a list of questions. But actually, I thought of another one while we were talking. David, I would love to know what laid the foundation for you to really want to focus on social emotional learning. I was a high school teacher, and I realized that I loved working with the students more than I loved my content, and that was what I was really there for even before I knew it was called SEL 22 years ago. And so, I'd love to know your story of walking into this important and really critical topic.

David (06:44):

Well, Krista, it's a great question. And I want to, I'm going to use a small analogy here, so I was kind of a little bit gifted with this power of observation when I was in high school and college. I would just have the opportunity to look around and start to be able to see, observe, and try to understand what I've been seeing and observing. And one of the things that I saw and observed was that students who excelled in school weren't just smart. They applied certain kinds of skillsets that allowed them to solve the kind of problems that schools put forth for us. Right? I watched them around how they set goals. I watched them around, how they related to the work, and how they persevered. And there's another thing I watched. And I don't know if you saw this, but if you look at a cross country team in any high school, it's usually the smartest, most disciplined people who excel in cross country.

David (07:40):

And there's a big overlap between cross country teams and the kinds of folks who are in the top tiers of schools, right? Because it turns out the same kind of skills for cross country discipline - delay gratification, the ability to set and achieve goals - is the same kind of skills that students use to be successful in school. And so, I was really invested in what was back then called non-cognitive or social emotional skills. Now we call it social emotional learning and really invest in understanding that if intelligence is relatively fixed, what kind of things can we support our young people with that are not fixed, that is malleable, that we can develop their skills and so that they can contribute the best versions of themselves as a society. So I got to study social emotional learning at Rutgers University. Dr. Maurice Elias exposed me to this notion. He said there are things that drive a wide variety of outcomes, things like academic success, things like relationship success, things like the ability to make good decisions and build strong foundations. And he called those skills social emotional learning. And I was blessed to have his class. Then, Dr. Elias moved on to the Center for Social Emotional Education focused on school climate. Some of the facilitators of Social Emotional Learning went over to Yale University, the Center for Social and Behavioral Laboratory, for about a year and really focused on implementation challenges. 

How do we answer questions focused on special education, particularly students classified as emotionally disturbed, which is a really important population - disproportionately black, disproportionately male disproportionately poor. It's a really good understanding of challenges in our education system. I came over to the Urban Assembly as Director of Social Emotional Learning, then Senior Director of Strategy, then CEO. Now, I’m with you - here with Krista and Craig today, having this conversation.

Krista (09:47):

It's fascinating to hear our entry points because I think having served on what we call the SAP team, the Student Assistance Program, I was supporting students who were experiencing barriers to learning. And so I came into SEL from a different angle, looking at my students who I loved and had in class, but they didn't necessarily have all the external supports that they needed to thrive and were still working on developing those social, emotional learning skills. And so I find that really fascinating and that my middle son is on the cross country team. And so now I want to dig in a little bit more deeply on what you just shared there.

David (10:26):

He's going to do all right. Wrestling is another sport that really drives persistence and those kinds of core skills that I think that help us be successful.

Krista (10:36):

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I'm going to kick it over to Craig because I do have a habit of just asking question, question, question.

Craig (10:44):

I think it's all good. I mean, it's a continued conversation. Because I know that we all have the heart of young people, you know, in the work that we do every day across the communities we serve. 

David, one of the things that I find impressive is that, under your leadership, Urban Assembly has been able to really develop social emotional learning and wellbeing, career, and experiences for 1600 schools. I know that UA has about 1600 schools in New York City alone infused with some really great tools and strategies and practices that you all have developed. What have you found to be most inspiring in the work that you've been able to see in the course of this last year, especially with the pandemic?

David (11:50):

Yeah. So I appreciate that question, Craig. You know, we came out of this pandemic, and we were forced to reconcile our view of education with the reality of what students were experiencing. And we went to a model where we were really focused on content, right? 

We were using Google Classroom. Did you turn in the assignment? Did you not? And we didn't really have the same opportunity to watch students learn, right? To really go back to that notion of observation to watch how students were approaching tasks, to watch how students were interacting with themselves and others in the context of a classroom. We know the data out of the pandemic found that students had high levels of social isolation. And it was worse as the ages increased, right? Not so bad for elementary school, but really, really difficult in terms of high school students.

David (12:48):

And so New York City came out of that space and said, “We need to make sure that we are promoting social and emotional assets of young people. We need to make sure that we're doubling down in our investment of what it means to be educated and ensure that schools are places where students learn about the world and themselves.” So we were partnered with the Department of Education and Aperture Education to assess student social emotional development and then organize systems and structures to support that. And there are some key things here that we're really, really proud of. One of the first things is that we really focused on asset-based development. How do we make sure that we build on students' existing strengths? This is not about reducing mental health needs. This is about increasing the assets that students bring to bear in solving interpersonal problems.

David (13:40):

The second thing we're really proud of is thinking about how we organize schools and systems around this notion of social and emotional and academic development. That it's not a question only of student’s individual competencies. It's also a question around how are environments organized, how are we creating classroom experiences so that students can relate to each other can speak to each other? What points of connection do students have with the school, with the teacher, with the classroom, and with their parents? We've been pushing folks to really think about this because communication is driven by assessment, right? Communication is driven by these tools that have people ask questions of themselves and their schools. And the last thing I would say, we're very proud, and I'm very, very proud of is a school in the Bronx.

David (14:29):

I received an artifact in which students really debriefed on their social emotional skills. And one of the challenges with assessment, especially on skill, is that folks can think that assessment is “be-all, end-all,” right? Like I have assessed. I now know things. But we know, Craig, that the point of assessment is to drive learning and to drive feedback so that students know their strengths and challenges and then incorporate that into learning plans. And, I got these artifacts, and it was so far away from me right now. I'm CEO. I have a Director of Social Emotional Learning. I have a Deputy Director of Social Emotional Learning. I have program coaches and all the way back up. I received this artifact of student debriefing on their social emotional strengths, their social emotional challenges, and what they're going to do to get better at responsibility and to enhance their already strong, let's say, self-management. I was so proud of that because, in 1600 schools, not everybody's knocking out the park, but to receive something like that reflects the vision of what it means to have really high-quality feedback, social emotional learning made my day, made my week. And that's why I'm sharing it with you today.

Craig (15:36):

Thank you.

Krista (15:38):

That fills my heart so much because as somebody who is also interested in looking at systems, I feel that we often design things for students and not with them. And so the fact that the students are already being invited into this process and they're grappling with self-assessment and setting their own goals and monitoring them. I think that's the ideal place to be. I firmly believe that social emotional learning is who you are and what you do. A program can help you maybe feel more confident and develop some confidence, but it needs to be the “glasses” that you are wearing. And that it's not just a 30-minute piece. It’s everywhere in school, out of school. And just inviting the students into that part really gives them, I think, a sense of agency and lets them have some ownership over the process. So that it's being co-created.

David (16:41):

A hundred percent. And when you scale something from 23 schools to 1600 schools, there is something lost in translation. You know, it's like when you watch a movie based on a book, and you're like, “oh, the book was a different kind of experience than the movie.” Right? So, to have some of these intricacies built into the concept, to know that the purpose of assessment is to drive feedback and the purpose of feedback is to drive learning, right? That made me very, very proud. And we're seeing it in comprehensive high schools with 5,000 kids. We're seeing it in our small schools with 400 kids. We're seeing it in special education schools and careering technical education schools. That's what it takes to drive student agency, for a student to have that sense, to know what it is that they're working on, being able to name it, claim it, integrate it. And that's what social emotional learning is all about. So, I resonate with you there, Krista, and I'm very, very, very proud of the work that we're doing here in New York and beyond. That's awesome.

Krista (17:42):

May I ask a follow-up question for that? Based on what Craig had said about something that you're really proud of… it also has me thinking, you know, what advice do you give systems - where maybe they've made missteps with the implementation process? I would love to hear where you might see some of those common missteps happen or what advice you would give an organization when they're looking at creating something that is comprehensive, aligned, and not sporadically happening throughout the organization.

David (18:15):

That's such a wonderful question. Well, the first thing I would say is take grace; none of us is perfect. We're all here to do what's right for kids. And we need to be humble in our approaches because none of us are perfect. We are a learning organization here at the Urban Assembly. Every year, we refine our systems and our structure so that we can do better by our schools and better by the partners who work with us. That's what it is to take a learning stance and understand, take your feedback and then incorporate it into your new approach. So the first thing I would say is, everybody thinks everybody else has it. We are all just one step ahead of each other, learning from each other, and how to do right by kids.

David (19:01):

The second thing I would say is that we're all doing social and emotional learning. There's not a school right now that's not impacting the social emotional development of young people. The question is how intentional are you around that impact? Number one and number two, are you impacting in positive ways or in ways that are less positive? To the extent that all schools are doing social emotional learning? All students are receiving social emotional inputs. We might as well do it well. Well, right. We might as well be intentional about the kinds of inputs that our young people are receiving so that when they graduate, they're graduating ready to contribute to their community, to college as well as to career opportunities. So, the work we do with Bridge Boston and New York City, and across the country - it's really about organizing and creating a lens.

David (19:53):

As you said, Krista, I call it the matrix effect, right? So Morpheus keeps telling Neo “You're in the matrix.” And Neo is like, “No, no, no, you know, I'm living this world.” He's like, “No, you're in the Matrix.” And finally, at the end, he stands up, and he starts to see all the little green dialogue. And he is like, “Oh my gosh, I can do what I want to do. I'm in the Matrix.” Right? And SEL is the same way.  When we start to see these interactions as both social and emotional and instructional, we recognize that those turn and talks that Socratic dialogues, the responsibility charts in elementary school, stations… all those things impact the social emotional development of our young people. So what that means in terms of advice for a school recognize you're already doing it. Be sure about naming it, claiming it, and then directing it towards the outcomes that you want. Then integrate it in ways that make sense. 

So, your extracurricular activities talk about cross country supports, goal-directed behavior, and self-management. Your art class helps support your self-awareness and perspective. Taking debate club helps you develop your communication skills and listening skills. Right? All these things are social emotional skills. 

When we recognize that it'll be easier to do it, students will be empowered and have the agency to deploy these skills in terms of their interests. And we'll build a better community for our schools or our society and our country-at-large.

Krista (21:18):

Thank you.

David (21:19):

You're welcome.

Craig (21:22):

So, you know, I am curious. Some people may not know you have some superpowers that also led all the way up to Washington, D.C. on SEL day. We saw that President Biden signed a proclamation to make it official that we have SEL Day every year. Could you share a little bit more insight on how did you help to make that happen? Not just in the United States, but there were several states across America that also made SEL Day. So tell us a little bit more.

David (22:12):

Well, I was very proud of that. Craig, I am speaking on a podcast, and a young woman, not a young one, but actually a woman, had said, “You know, I've been working very hard to get… she was a Sandy Hook mother. Her son was killed in Sandy Hook. She said, “I've really working hard to have these concepts recognized by the White House. And I'm really appreciative that you guys at the UA were able to make that happen. So, you know, we care about bringing folks together. Great. That's what it is. It's a lot harder to find bridges than to blow them up, right? To build bridges and to destroy them. It's a lot harder to find commonalities than to find differences. So, we've just been blessed to really work with folks who want to resonate with our windows in terms of the windows, into our society and ourselves, and the mirrors that reflect themselves.

David (23:07):

And we had a wonderful concept this year - Finding the Common Ground, Building the Common Good. And we know right now in our country, we are struggling to find common ground and build the common good. That's what is expected of us as citizens, is expected of us as leaders and education leaders. We’re just very blessed that this year we were able to resonate all the way up to the White House with a message that hopefully brought folks together around the ways that social emotional skills can help us be a better community. At the end of the day, I care about community. I care about fairness and justice in our communities. I'm very blessed to be able to play a small part in moving that conversation forward to honor folks like you, Craig, who has dedicated yourself and your school and your presence to lifting folks up, building community, and making sure our next generation is strong.

Craig (24:02):

Thank you. And for those who don't know SEL day is March 11th, so that was this past year. It doesn't mean that it's going to be March 11th every year. Does it doesn't change for those who don't know, David?

Krista (24:20):

And, can I add into Craig goes beyond his school and his immediate community in Boston. It is not uncommon for us to get video messages via text or email with Craig giving out positive messages and just thinking of you. And so he spreads it way beyond his physical community too.

[More dialogue coming soon]