043: Shaping a Thriving School Environment: A Conversation with Charle Peck and Dr. Cam Caswell

Welcome to SEL in EDU.

Where we discuss all things social and emotional in education. I'm Krista and I'm Craig and we are your hosts on the Stranding.

This podcast is created in partnership with Pennsylvania ASCD.

Hi SEL, the EDU family. It is another great day. We have a couple of really incredible guests today. Krista, how are you holding up to that?

I am doing fabulous. I think about it's. They're just good days, like when I get to go out into the community and do work like I love being in schools. But I have to tell you, my other two second favorite places to be are on a beach and in a bookstore. And I had a chance to go to a bookstore. I had a little bit of extra time and I turned over into the bookstore. I bought two marketing books. I bought a book on establishing routines and it just filled my bucket. I just love, I spend hours and I just wander around and I read the backs of as many books as I can and I take pictures of things that I want to read in the future. So my cup run it over today.

Oh well, that's good. Glad to hear.

How are you? How are you?

You know I am feeling a little rebellious. I am really excited that one is just really nice outside and two, I just want to be on somebody's dance floor and really get all. Just get the Friday thing taken in the way. That just adds joy. There's a thing called a tea dance that's happening this evening. I don't, I'm like I am not trying to have like English tea or breakfast tea, you know, maybe a Long Island iced tea. It's all going to be interesting. So made the decision to, you know, hit the dance floor in a little bit. So I'm really excited about that.

Can I make a request please?

Sure.

Can you record a little bit? And if you don't send it out into the ether, at least send it to me, because I love collecting your dance videos, Make me so happy and our guests. I'm going to introduce you in a moment, but if there's lots of videos online of Craig dancing like as a principal, dancing into the classroom with the kids and you know as he's doing his morning walks and conferences- yeah, it could have been a really great COVID hustle if I had played True, but we are here.

We are here.

We are, but I'm going to follow up with you tomorrow morning for some of those videos. Oh my. So, friends, I am so excited to have Charlie Peck and Dr Cam with us. I know a lot of people talk about technology and how there's some like there's negativity and stuff that comes out of that, but there's also really great things that happen too. So during COVID was when clubhouse was getting going. It's an audio tech tool that you can use to connect and like, listen in on conversations and join the conversations, and that's where I met Charlie.

Like two and a half years later, we are still connecting and rooting for each other's roles in education, and they just wrote this amazing book that I'm so happy to dig into and to talk to. So Charlie and Dr Cam are the co-authors of Improving School Mental Health, the Thriving School Community Solution, which is available on Amazon and if you go to the links at the bottom of this episode, you'll be able to get your own copy and they are the creators of the Thriving School Community, which is a revolutionary program designed for schools to improve mental health. They provide tools and strategies to schools and organizations nationwide to equip individuals with mental health relief. Charlie and Dr Cam, we're so happy to have you. Welcome to LS MCL at EDU. Hi, thank you so much for having us.

We're so happy to be here, truly, thank you.

Well, let's check in. How are you both doing today?

Go ahead, cam. Oh, I'm doing great. It's Friday tomorrow, winery day, so I'm hanging in, I love it. And it's so funny because, honestly, krista, I'm the same way about bookstores. I geek out completely and I don't go into them as many as often, and when I do, I love it, and I'm a dancer, so I'm like relating to both of you big time right now. I just got to say that's awesome. We need to follow up with you too. I have very embarrassing TikTok dances with my daughter. That's about it right now.

That's awesome, awesome, great Charlie how are you doing?

Yeah, I'm doing great too. The sun is shining, and boy would I love to be on the beach right now too. So I'm feeling that too, but I'm good.

It's coming for us soon, very soon. So tell me about the thriving school, like how you both met each other, how you've connected, and about this amazing organization and work that you've developed and created. Oh my gosh, how much time do?

we have. Yeah, why don't you?

start, yeah, so I mean, we actually met on each other's podcasts. We were guests and we just clicked because we had that same passion of thing. We're tired of hearing the problem. We got to figure this out and both of us really were seeking to figure it out. I come from, I'm an adolescent psychologist. I'm working with parents and their teenagers, so I'm hearing it from them.

Charlie will tell you she's been in education for several decades. So she came from that perspective and we're like we need to figure this out enough. And so we just started really working together and our first thing was to figure out why aren't things working? Now We've got these great programs. There's a lot of wonderful SEL programs that people are implementing.

Why is mental health still getting worse? And you know, so we're listening to the kids, we're listening to the teachers, and we spent a year probably just trying to figure out what wasn't working. And then we took that and we started coming up with what to do to resolve that and started teaching that to people. And people kept asking us do you have a book? Is this in a book? So Charlie and I sat down we're like, okay, we're going to write a book. And it was a labor of love and pain and joy and lots of deep conversations. We would spend sometimes we would spend over an hour talking about one word. Was that the right word? It just meant that much to us. We wanted to make sure we got this right.

Yeah, and it's a compliment to each other, to not only our ideas, but we both have such a lens like coming from education, I was K through 12, but I spent actually 18 years in a high school classroom and I did get to teach about mental health and I got to actually do a lot of mental health leadership within the district, which I was super excited about, and so I had so many ideas in my head for 10 years because I was same thing. And so when Cam and I were there have been talking about this and I remember thinking, oh my gosh, my students are struggling, why are they struggling? And then the conversation became my colleagues are struggling, I'm struggling, wow, and, by the way, a lot of us are parents. And so when Cam and I got together and we crossed paths, we just naturally made us go back to each other and continue these conversations and, instead of wondering what the problem is, how do we solve the problem, how do we solve this problem? That's what I think. School community is.

I found myself listening to a couple of episodes from the thriving school community and I really would resonated. For me and what I'm seeing on the ground with some of our middle school specifically, because I think the big question for your for your, I think it was like a marked podcast was who's responsible for the mental health of like teens and what not. And I'm like well 1, you know, hopefully the carried adults around, the young teens who are trying to navigate this. But we can't expect that a teenager is fully capable of Having really sound thinking, really great decision making in a pandemic, you know, or on the outskirts of pandemic, depending on what your opinions are about what.

What's the state of health today? But what you really talked about throughout the conversation was the power of connectedness and relationships, and so I'm really curious how are you leveraging that magical power in the midst of so many folks at this point? It's the end of a school year, many places at the south and we're coming to a close here in the Northeast region, but I'm really would love for you to talk a little bit more about connectedness and relationships and how is that hoping, with some of these questions that educators have about maintaining classrooms being stressed out with the environment that we're in and all of other stuff.

Yeah, so I can feel that first and then it will make so much sense for cam to finish my thought here, because I know, I already know what you're used to doing that.

We do this all the time. So and here's what's so crucial, craig, is that I've spoken to many superintendents, many district leaders, principals just so many people in leadership positions and guess what they all say? They all say the solution has to be about connecting more. And what I'm noticing and I think Dr Cam does too is sometimes when teachers hear that they get I, we roll our eyes at that and we're like, oh my gosh, if I hear one more time that that solution has to be about connection, I'm done. But what they do understand, what we understand, is we presented in such a way to say listen it's.

It's about finding people who are feeling lost and isolated and pulling them back into the school culture, because we're losing people that way. There's a huge teacher retention issue because of the disconnect, the, the working in silos, trying to equip students with SEL, right SEL skills, but done in silos. So then we expect them to go back to the same environments with stressed out parents and tapped out teachers, right, so they're struggling. And so it goes back to what you said, craig, is we kids are developing still and we are the caring adults who have to rally around them. But if we don't look out for ourselves, then we are not going to show up for them in a way that they need us to.

And so if we're feeling disconnected, if we're feeling like I'm doing one thing but somebody's doing something else, how in the world is this going to work? So it has to be a community approach. So this is where Dr Cam is going to come in and talk about the pillars, because it's essential. The community approach is essential and it is about connectedness. Ultimately, go ahead, dr Cam.

Yeah, I mean there's a few things here too, because we hear a lot about connectedness. What does that mean? And, even more importantly, how in the world do you do that when these kids don't want anything to do with you? And that's what we hear. I mean, I'm working with parents that are like I'm trying, my kid doesn't want anything to do with me, and we hear that with teachers too, and so we're struggling at home and at school. We call this a stress bill over, because when kids are stressed out at home, they go to school and they're misbehaving and stressed out, which causes teachers to burn out. When teachers are burned out, they don't interact well with the kids, which causes more stress. The kids bring that home. They're now stressing out the I mean it just cycles, and so what we want to do is say we need to find a way to stop this.

Our focus is prevention, first of all. I think so many of the solutions we see out there are about what do we do after everything's exploded and how do we put all the pieces together again, and when we're doing that with everyone, there's a lot of people that aren't being dealt with and there's a lot of people that aren't equipped to do that. And now teachers are being asked to deal with situations that are far outside of their abilities because they're not therapists, parents, same thing. So we want to prevent this from happening. There's always going to be extreme cases. There doesn't need to be nearly as many cases as there are now. So we want to make sure that teachers are learning these skills. And again, these skills are about how do I actually tangibly connect. It's not just saying go connect, it's saying how do I connect? And we make it so easy. And to make something really complicated easy is really complicated and difficult. So that's why we spend, you know, a lot of these skills. You're like, no, these are easy, but to get them to that point where they were easy to remember and easy to use was what was very difficult and for any age group. So teachers are doing this in the school and they're using these skills. They're learning how to connect.

A lot of the misbehaviors we're seeing right now is because kids do not feel like they belong, they don't feel accepted, they do not feel heard, and even when we try to do that, if we do it wrong, it makes it worse, and that's what I see a lot. So kids learn it there, then their parents are able to build those connections, and those are the most important connections Parents with their kids. Kids need to know their parents trust them and respect them, love them, accept them, and a lot of them don't. They get mixed messages.

So when we're building that, all of a sudden we create this environment. It's like immersion. Right, if you want to teach someone a language, you don't give them a seminar for an hour and say now go speak that right, even though no one else around you is speaking it. Instead, we're going, we're going to teach, we're going to get everyone around you speaking it and you're naturally going to learn because that's how you're interacting with everyone. So we don't even have to address the kids. Kids are going to learn through their experience with the adults.

I love that you've said that, because it reminds me of this idea of modeling, like we're learning it through being a part of it, and if we as adults are not aware and taking that pause and really thinking through how we're showing up, whether it be with our own children or whether it's in the classroom, we just continue that cycle. And so how can we take some of those pieces that you said we're already doing, but do it on a more regular basis and routinely, so it becomes part of that culture? And one of the pieces that I really, really appreciated about your book is the way it was set up. So you have these nine skills and I looked at them and I'm like, yes, you're right.

So here is what a problem is, here's an issue, here's a barrier, and my favorite part is and here's the way we've been told, or it's been communicated to us how to move through this problem. But we know that thought and times evolve and things change, and so we're going to talk to you about an alternative path that could give you success quicker or more smoothly or more efficiently. And so there's nine of these in here and I'm very passionate about them and I love them, but I'm wondering if you could pick maybe one and talk through that, one of those pieces of here's an issue. Here's what you may have been told, but here's what we have found in our work from our students, from parents, from staff. Here's another way to think of it.

So all right. So social plasticity comes up a lot. I was going to do that one too, or are you going to do that one? I thought you might have that in mind. And here's what's so important about social plasticity.

So, teachers, teacher retention is an issue, because teachers are burning out from being overwhelmed. And guess where their overwhelm comes from? Typically, we hear it comes from student behavior. Well, what about my mental health and wellness? I'm having a hard time functioning because these kids are a mess in my classroom and they keep acting out. Now we look at behavior as a symptom of the problem, and I know you all can appreciate that, especially Krista with your SEL background. But it does tell a story.

And so what we try to do is say listen, with social plasticity we are automatically making assumptions. That's what our brain is going to do and we're not going to try to fight that, because our brain is doing that for a purpose. And we could get into all of that and whole even another episode. That's the dynamics there, but that's what we're going to do. So what we say is listen, catch yourself making that assumption. Catch yourself, because once you then notice that, then you can start reframing and thinking about this differently. So when we do training with staff and parents and community members, we say once there's a process of how you catch yourself, but then we teach you to say, ok, there's more to this kid's story. We have to get curious about their story because there's more to it. And, by the way, we may never know what that story is.

And I always go back to the reference of a student that I had early in my career where she was sitting in my class and we get up in the middle of my class while I'm teaching and leave the classroom, not tell me and not sign out, and I'm like what is going on? And my principal actually called me to the office when she went and told on me. I felt like at the time and I was like what's going on? And he said just let her do that and I'm like what. So I did and there was animosity there for a long time between the two of us. Class ended, the semester ended, the new one started and I'm like I need to make amends with this kid because I don't like how it went. It just didn't feel right. We didn't have a great semester together.

When I went to look for her and I asked for the school counselor. I'm like, where is she? She's usually usually in this hall room. She said, well, she passed away and that student was sitting in my classroom, our classroom, with a terminal illness and I had no idea. So of course she's going to get up and there's reasons she did that, but there are students sitting there that will never know what's going on, and so social plasticity makes us catch our assumptions and start to reframe how we're thinking, and in that training we take you through that process, but in such a way that we don't have to leave that session doing any planning. We're too busy. It becomes reflexive practice, and that's what Dr Kim and I are trying to do is reduce the overwhelm by giving you the tools that you can reflexively use and start thinking differently and showing up differently, which then helps us manage our mental health at the same time. So, dr Kim, I know that you could probably expand on that or maybe get a different one.

I was just going to say, I think, with all of the skills, we took extremely complex ideas and one of the reasons, a lot of the solutions and I love that you called that Alchristic, because that was a big piece and the book is probably about an eighth or less of what the original book was, because we had so much research. We were fanatical about research and it was just. It was like I know they were like this could be a textbook for a college course, but I don't know. So maybe we'll use that for that later. But what we'd noticed I mean another one is just decision making. It's like great, there's all these very complex models for decision making.

Who in the world, when they need to make a quick decision, is going to use this complex method? And so we end up because every moment is a decision, and we end up making decisions mindlessly or reactively and then down the road we're like, oh my gosh, I made that decision. Now I feel guilty about the decision. I don't like the decision. The decision took me down the wrong road.

How do we create it so we become reflexively more adept at making decisions that align with who we want to be? It takes a little pre-work, but once we do that it's about, so everything that we do. It's about working with a brain saying this is how our brain works. Like we said, we need to make assumptions. We're not going to stop our brain from making assumptions. We're not going to stop our brain from grouping people and saying this and them us and them Our brain needs to do that. What we need to do is bring awareness to that and identify what that us and them is about and the fact that it's to create the sense of belonging.

And how do we get beyond that? And this goes across everything, because we live in a world right now that is so polarized, and part of this is because we spend so much time defending what we believe, because we have this need for people to agree with us and to be right, and so what we're looking at is how do we get to a point where we're okay believing what we believe, but we don't need to convince other people that we're right, and we can start actually listening and learning from other people, because what I have found is, most of the time, at the end of the day, our goal, what we're trying to achieve, is very much the same. We're approaching it from very different angles and it can get really ugly and really mean and we're not helping anyone. And so this is we're looking at that like how do we stop preventing, start preventing this polarization in a way that we still feel safe? And I think a lot of this comes from protecting ourselves.

And I was just going to say real quick to that. It goes back to that connection piece. When we just throw out connection, people don't understand it. But when you can put it in practical terms like that, it simplifies the answer right and it gives us a solution we can work with. And that's why I think people love doing it like they're absorbing what we're doing, because there's such a need for it and a demand. It creates that safety space that Dr Kim's talking about. That we have to have in our school communities, we have to have that at home and it has to be in our schools and it has to be back and forth. Kids got to feel safe if they're going to succeed anywhere whatever that looks like or perform, whatever these terms are, if they're going to function well, they have to feel safe and secure and it's up to us adults to set that up for them.

Yeah, and I think both were talking. It reminded me last night my bonus son was with us and he's 17,. He's a junior in high school and he and I often have very differing viewpoints on things and so, like years ago, I would say, well, here's where I'm at. And he would tell me where he was at and I'm like, but you know, let's check sources, but like, let's, this is some things to look at for, like where you're getting information. And then I would say, like a couple months ago we were having a conversation and he was trying to convince me of something and I don't remember what it was, but it was a core value of mine that was really just not going to change. And I'm like I hear. I said I hear what you're saying and I'm not trying to change your mind and you're not going to change mine. So we can still keep talking, but we don't need to be upset, like you don't need, like he was starting to get heated about it. I'm like we don't need to be heated because it just this is where we're at right now.

And then last night we were talking about another topic and I mentioned how I thought about it and then his dad, my husband spoke. And then he spoke and he's like, well, here's two reasons why I see it this way. And I listened to him and I'm like, hmm, those are really two very good points. I see what you're saying. And my husband's like, oh my gosh, did you just? And I'm like I think he did, because he brought up some really good points that I hadn't thought about. And yeah, let's go. And so I think that just that plasticity like you know, we have these ideas and I think it Evolutionarily, if that's a word, isn't that what kept us safe like thousands of years was dead, is having this, and but what are we doing with it now and how are we using it to connect with other people? Thank you, it just reminded me of making those kind of love that.

I bet that conversation when you actually heard and we're like, oh my gosh, my, I just got a new concept and my, my ideas just grew. That probably was so much more enjoyable to you than defending what you already believe, but going wait, wow.

And I was like, oh, like I like those aha moments. Yeah, it was. I was just really thankful that he was the one who was able to open that side up for me.

And how many teenagers get that opportunity to be heard and validated like that from an adult? That's huge.

And, granted, my husband will say, you know, you call him out when he's probably not using the best resources or thinking you know. But to be like yeah, dude, you're getting. Yeah, that worked. Yeah, so I know Craig's got a. I can see, I see it coming. You've got a question.

I have a question have millions, but you know, for the sake of this conversation, I think one of the one of the continuing conversations I know that I'm having with our staff is around technology and just social media, specifically with the world of you know to talk and Instagram really galvanizing the, you know, the space, the many spaces of our young people, as well as this court, because this court has now become, you know, another avenue that I'm hearing so many young people engage with trying to develop and maintain relationships from a social media perspective. I'm curious, how are how you're walking alongside some educators at schools and trying to navigate and families who are trying to navigate the complexity of social media driven relationships.

I have so much to say about this topic because it is a one of the. I mean, what's interesting when you work with parents, with teenagers, everyone feels like they're alone, and yet you hear the same issues over and over and over again. And tech use is way up there. One of the things that I see with tech use and I understand how my generation the generation that have kids right is so freaked out about it because we don't understand it. We hear a lot about all the negative impacts it has and, yes, it is addictive and, yes, it does enable you to access some scary stuff. What we don't understand, I think, or really embrace, is the fact that this is their culture, this is the way they communicate, this is the way they entertain themselves, this is who they are right now. And so when we say, just put your phone away, you don't need your phone, we're saying go put your friends away, go put your life away, go put everything you like away and now go enjoy yourself. Well, you just took everything away from me and I have parents that go. I'm really worried about them not connecting. So I took their phone away to make them connect and they're like my parents took everything away from me, I can't connect with my friends, I'm isolated.

So we wanna make sure that we are approaching technology not with fear, but with this understanding that this is what our kids use. How do we help them use it safely? How do we help them use it in the best way? Because I see a lot of kids actually using this technology to find people that they feel they belong with, and it's not always, yeah, parents are like, yes, scary people, not always scary people, it's often those people right. It helps them connect to. They've moved, they can connect to friends, they find people with similar interests. They find there's so much that they can do with it.

So I think we want to, as parents, we need to educate ourselves better when it comes to social media. We need to understand it, not fear it. We need to get on it and we need to learn it. You don't have to spend as much time on TikTok as I do I would not do that but I think it's about really understanding and embracing it and helping our kids learn to navigate it, because guess what? They're gonna get on it anyway, so let's make sure they do it well. That's my whole soapbox that I can show.

Well, it comes from a place of experience. You have incredible experience working with kids and families, and so when you do that, it's so valuable to share it, and that's the key. Yeah, I mean, I'm navigating that right now with my middle child, because I always told my kids when you're in high school that's when we'll start the cell phone deal. But there's other times where it made sense to come up. So my middle child is going into eighth grade, and so my husband and I were thinking, okay, he's actually made great strides, he's showing a lot of maturity and, by the way, he's starting to connect with more friends at school and summer's coming, and so we thought what better way to teach him, lead him into this in a way that will help him connect with his friends? And so we allowed him. We're not into the social media yet, this is brand new, like a week old but we gave him an old cell phone, got a phone set up for him with the phone number and allowed him to start getting on there. And so he went to school and one of his friends wrote out the phone number for him to share with other friends, and so that, right, there was like wow, now other people are gonna be connecting with me and he started getting texts from his friends and this kid hasn't done that before and it's just. It made him feel important and included.

And it goes back to what you said, craig Even the youngest kids understand what being included and excluded are like, and so it can be a valuable mental health experience. If we teach them, if we lead them, we are the most important pieces in their learning and the way they're gonna navigate it, just like when we taught them how to advocate for themselves and everybody complains about hey, my kid, they expect to have everything, they're asking for this and now they expect this. And I'm like we do ask them to advocate for themselves and their needs, but we need to show them how to effectively do that so that they're not demanding right the way that we adults don't like to hear it. Let's teach them how to use it, just like that. But us adults still do Well, we sure do Well, we do because we haven't been taught.

We're challenged, right.

Yeah, but it's like this chat GPT thing coming in, it's here, it will stay, so let's be their leaders, right? I mean again, there's so much we could say about this, but, dr Kim, you covered it so very well.

When you were talking, dr Kim. It made me think of how taking away the phone for them is like having them disconnected from their community, from their people, from all the things that fill their identity. And I connected it to when kids were younger and if they quote, acted up in class, they'd lose recess. Yes, like a such a mismatch, yeah, with consequences. And it had me thinking like, oh my gosh, I hadn't thought about it. I thought about it in terms of like, what's important, but not in terms of part of an identity and a need.

And I'm not saying that there are natural logical consequences, but maybe there's another way to do it. And I'm thinking how that connects to the connection piece. My son, who's a senior, is a computer gamer and I'm not a gamer like that, but he'll come out and he tells me all about it and sometimes I'm like I'm not getting it, like I don't fully understand it, but I want him to keep connecting with me about why he likes it and the people. So I'm hearing about the people that he's interacting with and who he's been friends with and he tells me about. Well, this person said this and now this person's not talking, and so it might not be my thing, but I challenge you to have him teach you.

I did that with my nephew. I am terrible at those games, terrible. Spent the whole time having my avatar run into a tree and never got anywhere, but it was so fun and he took so much time helping me create my avatar. So us getting in their world is that's how we connect.

And it's funny you say that because he'll be upset. I said this Because he said there's a stereotype that goes along with kids who play League of Legends. Is that the right word? He's like there's a stereotype mom and I don't fit that stereotype. But I don't tell people that I watch it because Watched, but when we watch when? Ok, so when we eat dinner together, he'll put it on and he explains to me on the television what's happening. That's awesome. I didn't understand. I'm like what is happening here and then I started to get it and I'm like this is really deep and complicated. There's a lot of layers here and I actually started to like it.

Don't tell anybody.

I'm like, oh so now watch it with him and I sort of understand what's happening and what's the strategy behind it.

I will say that my kid is a big Mario fan and I'd rather stick a fork in my eyes and play Super Mario Like Super Mario Bros. Yes, you're killing me. What's the one that the track?

Roblox Race cars. No, the race car one. Oh race car Mario.

Kart Mario.

Kart. I think it's a big one.

I'm sorry it's like riding a roller coaster. Oh, it's boring to me, but I will take time to listen to him explain some of the worlds and stuff he's thinking about, coding and all that. So the point is made, but it does. It feels a need, it feels a desire for them to feel alive and connected and all of that. That's the good part.

So we have so many questions that we could ask, but we love this one question that we ask our guests from time to time. I had to sit all the way up because my chair went down. I'm like, let me ride, I don't want to be in the corner. So what would you consider to be your super power?

My superpower is actually and I call myself the teen translator I can. I can tell you what teens are thinking and what's behind their, their actions. I've done it enough and I've gotten it right way too many times now. My, my teen doesn't like it that much, but no, but that is. I can tell you what's going on.

Yeah, and I think mine would definitely. By the way, yes, like she's awesome. You guys need to reach out if you're struggling with your team, because Dr Kim will help you. Mine is what is determining what the need is helping people figure out what is it that you actually need. I think the trauma background I have, with a lot of training, coupled with the education experience I had like in that system, I'm able to talk with educators about that in a way to say, hey, let's address your mispressing need, let's now figure that out, and I think that's an approach we need to take and I that's something that I just tend to do well, yeah, I was going to say Charlie.

In addition to that and I think what's really helped with with our whole solution and how we present it is Charlie's very good at presenting new ideas in a way that doesn't make people feel ashamed or embarrassed that they don't know it, so it gives them that space to have a mindset reset because it's safe. And so, charlie, you're. I've seen you do this with a lot of people when we're, when we're teaching, and it's very, it's pretty, pretty cool.

That's so nice, thank you. Oh, and then we'll spend an hour talking about the word plan and arguing over should we use that word or not.

We do, we do.

Thank you, Cam.

Here I'll go Wow, how can folks get in touch with you? I mean, you know I'm excited you have a new book that just came out. But folks and I've already shared earlier I saw I know that you're on some different podcast ways and but how can people get in touch with you and stay connected?

And I think the easiest way. Right, Go ahead, Dr Cam. Go ahead. You're going to say the same thing, oh yeah.

Thrivingschoolorg. I mean, you can find both of us there. It goes into educator PD, it goes into parent education, but everything leads Thrivingschoolorg.

Yep.

Awesome. Thank you, it's been such a pleasure to get a chance to talk with you and, for those of you who are listening, you can go down and click on the resources, go right to their website. We are going to connect you to the social medias, to the medias like the Google and a direct link to Amazon as well, so that you can pick up their amazing book. So, craig, I will let you take it away. Craig, you just get me hanging, closing up our session every single time.

I'm like, what is she going to say?

here. Oh yeah, I'm not closing up the session.

Use your strengths. Use your strengths, yes, exactly.

Sit here and I'm like oh oh oh voice.

You do have a soothing voice and a good laugh Definitely.

You are too kind. Thank you, alright, selad to you family. I am over here beaming like I'm sitting on top of a Mario Kart tolstool. I'll tell you I'm just absolutely thrilled beyond belief. It is been our pleasure I'm still geeking, still geeking to have Charlie Peck and Dr Cam Caswell here with us. You got to pick up a copy, not just not one, you got to have one for a friend. This is book club stuff.

For those at this point, when this podcast comes out, like if you're like, okay, how are we going to take it to 2.0, 3.0 of the work that we're doing, some for some folks you're doing like 2.1, you know, but get multiple copies of improving school mental health, the thriving school community solution. Really incredible read, really great resource as part of the connect ed family. Hi, jimmy, and until we come back together again, selad you family, we want you to thrive. It is important not to just live. It is not just important to survive but to thrive and have everybody around you and all of their magic come together and just love into a real dead and type. And we are going to continue to do what we do and we're going to be incredible forces of light. We love y'all. Y'all take care.