044: The Art of Self-Discovery with Psychotherapist Lisa Pepper Satkin

Welcome to SEL in EDU.

Where we discuss all things social and emotional in education. I'm Krista and I'm Craig and we are your hosts on this journey.

This podcast is created in partnership with Pennsylvania ASCD.

Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, go, go, go go. Sel in EDU family, this is your time. We are so excited to welcome you back. Krista, how are you holding up? How's your heart today?

My heart, my heart is over filling. And as soon as I thought you were going to break out into song, I was going to get ready to start dancing and like, yeah, let's go, let's go. My heart, my heart, is full. Today the weather's been nice. I know we talk about weather a lot. I will say I started working out in the mornings. I like get myself together. You guys have been inspiring me. I'm sore, I have muscles I didn't know I had, but I'm, I'm, yeah, but my spirit and my heart is good. How are you?

I I too do Well great to just be in space in time with you and our wonderful guests that we have today. But I last week did some self care and I got this two hour massage by someone my partner recommended. And you know I've I've done massage several times. I'm one who likes to lift and work out and stuff like that. But there was something that you know this masseuse amplified in regards to when you talk about muscles. You didn't know the things that he did to to move and stretch my body in ways I didn't know were possible, and the and the like. He got this thing in my neck and he just like rolled his thumb around. Oh, we don't know each other like this. Like I don't understand how you find a place that I know. Yes, I'm like, do we need to date? No, I'm just playing.

You will be back. You'll be back. Like three years ago I met a good friend of my. We're good friends now, but she does deep tissue work and, holy cow, I drink water. I leave before I go see her and she finds like knots and she names them. She's like, oh, this one wasn't here before. I'm like, get it out, get it out. Wow, it's life changing.

Okay, it is like a life saving life giving.

Yes, yes.

Life after life after life. We have a wonderful guest today, krista, that I think we are going to be blown away by and I say listen, let's just lean in and get ready. So I would love to introduce our guest, lisa Pepper Sackin, who is the founding executive therapeutic coach, has a lot of really great things that I'm going to talk about right now. Lisa is a licensed psychotherapist, a Brede Brown certified dare to lead facilitator. Through the powerful tools of psychotherapy and insightful techniques of coaching, she empowered successful executives, high achieving leaders, and driven individuals to transcend yes, transcend negative thinking, which I'm going to appreciate harness their inner wisdom and manifest lasting transformation. Lisa's created executive therapeutic coaching and consulting just a master's degree in over 25 years of experience contributing to client success, and I found out that she was like award winning or noted recently for all of the wonderful work that she does on behalf of women, which we might get into today, I don't know, but I just think that that's pretty awesome, whether or not it's the state of California, the nation, or like San Francisco I think I just saw that, but anyway, I'm going to keep close out. I'm going to say this Lisa also created my hearty kid, a fabulous program that teaches kids to have fun with social emotional learning, to commit to free time, to volunteer in a classroom, teaching to young people and also to some of the educators who stand with them about self, which is social emotional learning, made fun. You can definitely connect with Lisa in many ways, but check out my hearty kid calm. She happily provides my hearty kid free to educators.

Lisa, welcome to SEL and edu the podcast. How are you? How's your heart today?

I love that question because I'm you guys don't probably know this about me, but I am very known for my hearts and I find hearts in the world and I post them all the time and I think what it is it's an indicator of what you focus on shows up, and my children's book that I wrote is about a little girl having anxiety and she learns how to refocus her mind away from the angsty fear and starts to find hearts in the world, and so it's a perfect question to launch me into your podcast, because it's all about social emotional learning really is about teaching our kids how to have power within their thoughts, right, and how to really operationalize that power, to learn what to do with it. And then, if we teach our teachers that, then they get to teach the kids and then the kids get to teach their parents, because probably a lot of the parents really need it the most of all, right. So that's a good intro for me. All about the heart.

Oh well, it's so good, we're so glad to have you here today. So one of you know the wonderful questions I could ask is and I'm stealing this from Bakari sellers podcast I just listened to Bakari, who is, you know, checking my anyway Could you share a little bit more about the arc of your career and all the work that you do and what? What has you right here, shining a light in our world at this point, in our, in our universe?

Yeah, I am. When I was 10, I knew something was off in my own home and that's like a whole other podcast, a whole other genre probably. But I asked to start therapy and I met this really cool woman who let me have a voice and let and highlighted what my truth was. She kept asking me to mind for the pearls that I knew were inside, and one of them was intuition. Now, I probably didn't know that word then, but I knew what I knew and she honored it. So I had this very young experience of knowing what was sparked in me and having somebody else reflect that in the affirmative and said, yeah, keep going, keep going. So then I carried on and I taught my friends about this. You know, I'm in the third grade, leading girls groups at recess.

I grew up in a state that was predominantly Mormon, and I did not grow up Mormon and I knew my friends weren't allowed to swear, and so I would gather them at lunchtime and teach them how to swear, because I think it's good to know how to swear. Sometimes swear words are really effective. Oh right, oh, my God. I taught my kids that and now I think it's overused. So we have to, you know, keep going forward and you know, forward and back with with some of the skills that we learned, and I just loved being in groups and with circles and I don't think that ever changed. I ended up studying abroad in high school, so that was another group of all the foreign exchange students, and then I traveled abroad in college and I just kept manifesting healing circles wherever I was, and so then I finally decided to go to graduate school in psychology you know, in my late 20s and naturally was going to be psychology because I loved it so much.

And this beautiful quick story when I finished graduate school I ran into my original therapist at a party. She was out, we were out someplace, and I recognized her hands because in our session she used to smoke cigarettes. That's now aging myself, like if a therapist can smoke in your session, you know how young I am. Anyway, we would eat donuts and she would smoke cigarettes and her dog would stand up at 10 to the hour. That's when sessions were still just 50 minutes. And I ran into her and she was an older woman by then and I invited her to my party and I and I got to feed her at my own graduation party. It was really beautiful and I knew I'd make the right move and so I was following in her footsteps. She had cataracts and so you know she needed some extra TLC.

And from in graduate school I loved working with kids. I loved the schoolwork, I loved the applying creative tools to help kids really get the imprint of the teaching. And when my own daughter was in kindergarten, her best friend was afraid to raise her hand to go to the bathroom. And my little one told me about this and that's Ella in my whole program. And I said Ella, ella, if you practice being brave, I'll make you a surprise at the end of the week. And this little girl like lit up, and every day I would pick up my own daughter and she would say I was brave, I was brave. And so by the end of the week I had to invent something, and so I made this little heart headed toy for her and it says I am brave. And she loved it, and so all the kids loved it. So I was like well, maybe I'm on to something.

So I ended up making, like trying to make this business, which was not very successful as a business but was very successful as a program. I know those kids still today, and I've run into kids in my community and they're like you're that hearty kid lady. I remember you. You're the first person who blank, you're the first person who believed in me or saw me or talked to me or, right, listened to me. And so I built this program.

And then I've had to work, I've had to do everything, so it needs a program, and he's like Oprah or Megan and Harry or someone to say, okay, here is a big chunk of change, go make books, go give it to schools, and it will happen one day. I know it will happen, it just hasn't happened yet. And so then here I am. I landed with you. I'm a therapist, I'm a coach. I weave it all together. Like you said, I'm a certified dare to lead facilitator with Brené Brown's body of work, which I got certified in in 2019 with 399 other people. She only trained 400 of us and I don't know that she's doing it again, but I get to be in the world leading that body of work as well, and so I'm kind of a woman of a lot of passions and good thing, I have a lot of energy because I do it all. I try and do it all.

Anyway, I love the energy that you're exuding and it reminds me very much of Craig's energy as well.

So I know we don't do these videos anymore, but sometimes, like when Craig pops on, I just feel it and I'm smiling and you have that same energy and I appreciate you sharing your story and it's getting me think about how important it is to help children recognize their strengths and their gifts and to honor their truth and the way that they view the world and to really validate that.

And I know you work deeply in social emotional learning and I follow the castle framework and so for me that's around self awareness, the strengths, your identity, your sense of purpose, and you just modeled the growth mindset by saying yet you know. But I and I also believe in that the energy that you put out in the world comes back, like I believe in this kind of cyclical piece, and so being very mindful about how you're showing up in the world and how you're fueling the young generation, I think is really important. And you mentioned some creative tools that you use with young people and I'm wondering if you would be willing to maybe share one of those tools. Perhaps that helps our students really recognize their strengths or validates who they are and allows them to see a pathway that maybe they didn't know was accessible to them before.

Yeah, and you know what I can do. I can create a link to the piece that I'm describing. I'll have my assistant make it into a PDF and then I'll give it to you and we can. We can give it to your listeners as a downloadable for free, because it isn't just in for classrooms, but I call it the big love map, and you put a big heart in the center of a piece of paper, right and then, and then spokes off of it with hearts, or kids can decorate it however they want, but they, they use this love map to begin to identify who they know they are from the inside out. So, for example, a child might say I'm athletic, I'm creative, I'm a strong reader. Like any of their, I ams. We teach them early on, if you imagine if we taught kids early on how to use affirmations. So, anyway, the thing that's beautiful about the love map is they make it, they decorate it, you tape it to their desk or you put it on the fridge or you put it on their wall, however you want to do it, and kids read it over and over and over and it's a long term imprint.

Now here's another magical part of it. Let's say a child's like I don't know. I mean, that happens, some kids don't know who they are and then they go to the front of the classroom and I used to put like a big heart on the whiteboard, whatever it was, and then I would have other kids identify what they see in that student Right. And then the student turns around. They're like I am a good friend, you know, you can see them light up and it's really a magical gift to give to every child to have every child go in front and have the other kids say things. It's a different process to to have the kids identify it themselves, but both are strong and both are valuable and I'll make sure I create it and send you guys a PDF. Thank you, that would be amazing. I've hand done all of these the whole time I did them, but my assistant can make it look much better than I can.

I would. I mean, I am blown away and I have to be honest, I was spending a little bit of time on your Facebook. I mean you are. If people could just see some of the Art work that you've invested over years, I mean and you could keep scrolling, but some of the things that I love, that I see I'm making a leap, that you're also an artist as well, because there's so much fun. I mean so many things that really resonate and all and stimulate me. But you have one, a quote don't believe your feelings, believe your values. Then create value. And how is that showing up with the young people you serve, or the educators you serve, or just in your day to day work? I would love to hear a little bit more about that. And if you want to talk about some of your art as well, I mean, that's phenomenal, but I just love to hear more about how is that resonating today?

So I love that quote because if we choose to believe our feelings, our feelings change. They come and go, just like the weather, it just comes and goes and changes. But our values, once we get connected to our core values, then, and we have an imprint of that and we follow that, that's another branch off of the social emotional learning tree, because we are leading with something that has more grit or resiliency. Our values do. Feelings come and go right. One moment we see kids in the classroom, one moment they're in a fight, one moment, and then the next moment they're best friends again. I mean, I've had that when I was a little kid and so I think it's important for kids to really start to tune in. Kids and adults and teachers and administrators right, tune in what are my values and how do I lead with that, rather than our feelings. And I describe it like this like if we're afraid it's going to rain, it would mean, probably, that we have to carry around an umbrella all of the time. Now, that's crazy. No one's going to carry around an umbrella all the time and it's not going to rain all the time. And if we lead with our values, which is I am resourceful, then if it rains. I know how to go under cover or I need. I know how to go to my car and get my umbrella, or I know I can put a really tiny rain poncho in my backpack and I can use it if it rains. So the feelings would be carrying around the umbrella all the time. The values would be I'm resourceful and I'm a problem solver right, I can solve that problem if it were to rain.

And so then sometimes when I have a quote, I go to my iPad and I do my art, and I'm very sad to say that my iPad that had years of art, all of my art, like books and things I'd written and things I designed and things I'd created, and I lost it all at the beginning of the year and it taught me to release, surrender time to create new. And so I appreciate you saying that and I didn't think about. I really appreciate because I can go back through Facebook and regather some of that art. So I've saved some of it from old, you know places, but thank you for recognizing that. It's interesting because I come from a family of I don't want to use this word that I have often said in the past real artists, because I too I'm a real artist, but I come from a family where their art is phenomenal, and so it's taken a lot in my adult life to step into. My art is great too, wonderful too, okay too, you know. So thank you for saying that.

No, I'm like, I'm looking, you have one that says healing is a verb. I'm like, oh my God, okay, like that alone could be a podcast by itself. Healing is a verb, it's not a finished line. Like there's so many nugs and gems, we go back and look.

I'm going to go back and look. That's great, isn't that true, though, you guys? Healing is a verb, and here's a teaching that I give. That's a great social emotional learning teaching, and a great teaching in education that there's no such thing as going forward and back. We don't take three steps forward and two steps back. It's just, it's not even scientific. It's all a spiral going up and up and up, and you know, I had a client say to me the other day I feel like I'm going back to my old ways, and I said well, it's impossible because it's April 2023.

You've never been here before with the tools in your toolbox. So it's literally impossible to go three steps back. It's all up and up and up on a spiral, and we're on a new rung. We may be talking about the same issues, right? Think of our young ones. Their family situations don't change day in and day out necessarily, and they may feel differently, or they may feel like they have more tools in their toolbox, but if they're going back into a family system that is less healthy or less communicative or has less means, that's hard. We have to have compassion and empathy for that, while providing them with new tools on how to how to really survive and thrive in that Right.

I think one of the there's so many thoughts I have going on, and I think one of them with more recently, what you've said and Craig brought up, is that the healing is a journey piece and I spent so much of my life like wanting to get to a certain point because I thought it would be better than or like the way I imagine it to be, like that there's an end point, and it's taken me really in the last maybe 15 years to embrace that it is a process and then not get tied up in there being an end point, because that the energy I think is what I'm trying to say, is the energy that you think like okay, this is a journey, like this is just what it is when you get your brain wrapped around, that I feel like it's more of a ride that you can have some control over, as opposed to like, oh God, this is going on forever.

Right, so that this is life, this is a part of it, and embracing that journey so that you're not missing it, waiting to get to your destination Beautiful.

That's beautifully said. Oh, I'm going to use that. I work with these 30 something late 20s, early 30 men and women who are struggling finding a partner right. And what am I? What if I'm all alone? I said, well, then come and I'll be in my rocking chair and you'll tell me at the very last bit of my life, you'll tell me, if you were all alone or not. But we got work to do right here and right now, Like that's forever away, right.

When you were talking about your values, and the Dare to Lead book was to me like one of the top five books that everybody needs to read and I held it up for you. I have sticky notes all throughout it, like I counted up, and there's at least 40 of them that I go back to you should show you my copy too.

I'm with you, girlfriend. That is it.

And I think one of the pieces that really resonated with me was how to determine your values. That process was in this book, because people would say, oh, what are your values? And I'd be like, oh, what do I? What's important to me today? And it'd be like, well, my family is always important to me.

But going through that process and thinking about what are my two values, it's learning and courage. So, knowing that there is a journey, and then courage that, once I've learned something new, to integrate it and do something with it. And the part that I really appreciate that she had in the book was that having an accountability well, accountability group or your square squad, that can, I think, tell you when you're starting to slip out of those core values and remind you of what they were Right. And so you think about what is this like when I'm not leading in my living into my values? And sometimes we need to pull each other back a little bit because we're so in it that we're not seeing the big picture. So I think my question then is what are your values, if you wouldn't mind sharing, and how do you make them a routine part of your processes when it comes to, like, social, emotional learning, and how do you use them to guide you?

And can't believe you're asking me that because I just spent the hour before I worked with both of you on a whole new values piece that I'm working with with another coach developing, and so I really had to get in there. And before I answer that can I give you a tip about? Because you brought your two core values of learning and courage Right, and I think a key teaching moment about our values is looking at where am I in balance and where am I at a balance with learning or with courage. Let's use your two as an example. Right, and when we have and Craig will understand this when you have an overdeveloped muscle in front, it's usually an underdeveloped muscle in back, right, and you've got to get, like your quads and your hamstrings balanced at the same way. Or your biceps and your triceps Right, we need to make sure that our learning. So, for example, if you're learning is overdeveloped, then you just keep taking course after course after course before you step into your own power to teach others or to lead others you think, oh, I just need one more course. Right, and if it's underdeveloped, it's. You know, maybe way too much Netflix and not enough reading or learning in your free time. That's just a little lesson to myself, right? And so what I encourage you to do is to look through that values list again. I can probably tell you what page it is on, because mine's so dogged and I would like circle for other values on the list that you would like to see yourself strengthen, so that you know that learning is really solid, right? So it might be, for example, reading, right. All of us like probably all of us need more time with reading, and that would be a building block to strengthening this value of yours of learning. So that's how I tie it into social, emotional learning Like we can have our strong values, but we also get to look at what we need to develop even more, even though those are our core values.

I love that we just led a group of women in getting them dare to lead trained, and it was a four day workshop retreat and we did this cool exercise with blocks and we put our values on it and then we added what we need to build to strengthen it. I don't mean it's not there, it just means we want to bump it up a bit, right. One of my core values is teamwork, and I just heard a really cool thing, which is sometimes our value is based on something that we didn't get as a kid. I mean, this is a whole new set of teaching that I'm just starting to develop, understand, and this woman's developed it and I'm like, wow, so where would that be true for me with teamwork? Well, it's so true for me and my family of origin. Where it wasn't teamwork, there was a lot of division, so naturally my value would come out of the wound of that. So it's interesting if we start to slow down and ask ourselves about that right.

Yeah, thank you. That's definitely some processing that I'm going to be entering into, If you don't mind, Lisa. I'm curious, Craig, have you done the values work in the Dare to Lead?

I have not. I'm certain he's done values work, though, as the tip top principle yeah, what comes to mind for you.

We can cut this part out if you're not wanting.

No, I don't have a.

I think that when I look at Brene Brown, who has, I mean, a huge number of values, and I do understand that a lot of this can amplify in your example much more, depending on where you are in life at moment, for moment to moment.

So for me, as I think about, well, what is it that I hope people experience in their time with me? I'm really hopeful that people feel a sense of like, whole-heartedness, that my engagement is really centered on connection and that's really important at this time. I know for myself I am really beholding to safety and that's just because there's so many things going on in my spear that leaning into that for myself, from a preservation perspective, and just more of an introspection on what's going on and how is it that I can help get clarity but also continue to not allow the things of the world to dim or quell my flame or the light that's inside of me, like I'm working through that. So I think that as I look at Brene Brown, who has, you know, it looks like about a hundred. You know, those are the things that kind of surface right now for me.

Even though there's other, she encourages you to pick out just too. But there's something where you just said safety that had me realize the piece around privilege too. Like huh, I've never thought about safety in terms of my work, but I think about safety in the world. I was a very anxious kid. It's interesting that I wrote a children's book about anxiety, which I never thought was my biography, but after it was published and out I was like, oh my god, that's my own story. Never even dawned on me when I was writing it. But safety is a concern, a very deep personal concern, but not something in my body of work, because it's like naturally. I believe that I help people feel safe because I adhere to my word, I hold confidentiality, I work with compassion, you know. So I just so appreciate you saying safety, because I want to think about that more.

I would love to hear a little bit more and I know our listeners would love to learn a little bit more about my hearty kid. Could you tell us a little bit more so we can know what is going on there? How can our kids get signed up or be part of my hearty kid?

Well, when this little girl, Ella, when I made her this hearty toy, I turned it into a toy that got passed around in the classroom. So it wasn't a teacher initiated toy, it was a kid initiated toy and it wasn't based on, oh, you were good today or you were not good today. It was based on whoever had the toy could pass it on to another kid who wanted the toy to feel I am brave, right. And then I started teaching about these things like how to affirmations, gratitude, how to ignite self-care. I created this whole thing about intuition, which I called shoe. So it was like intuition but it was a play on words. But it was all about having kids start to tap into where and when they feel safe or unsafe. Now, since then, it's been very interesting conversation with my teenagers, who are now grown, 17 and 19, about what they felt like I ignited in them when they were little. They thought that I sort of had ignited a lot of fear in them, but I was just trying to wake up that gut sense that when you don't feel okay, how do you take care of yourself? Right, you're in a grocery store and someone's bugging you or is weird. Where do you go to take care of yourself and how to ignite that.

So this whole program, my Hardy Kid I would go into the classroom and I would teach it and on the website myhardykidcom you can see that kids started to learn to play with talking about themselves like I am beautiful. I have this whole great circle and there's a wonderful little mp3 on there about it's saying I am beautiful. And they feel so uncomfortable and so silly and they all wanted to do it and they all loved doing it. And one teacher took a whole day out of her curriculum and classroom for kids to share what their gifts were with their fellow classmates and I would go in and talk about all of their I am's. We would do a whole day on I am. And I would get to the classroom and kids would say what's your? I am Craig, and you would say I am the safety king. And then the next child and everybody would go around and declare there I am and um, oh, it loved it so much, it was so wonderful.

So I created a workbook for kids, a workbook for teachers, a guidebook for parents and mentors right, because not all kids have parents, some aunties, uncles, grandmasters. So I put parents and mentors and then I created the website and then I created a card game. It's called Love Big and it's I'd love to send you both one, which you'll give me your address and they will and it's 52 questions that kids can ask each other. But I always took it on vacation with my kids and we would. That's what we would do at dinner, right? What's something that makes you feel afraid? What's something that ignites join you. Have you ever traveled? When's the last time you made a phone call? Do?

you know, what, like my kids are. Like phone what's a phone? You know that was pretty funny. But all these wonderful questions what do you like best about yourself? Where do you feel safe? Who's a safe person for you to talk to? These are critical questions to ask kids to grow a sense of self and to listen to one another. So I think it's magical, craig, that we met, because it's been on my weekly vision board, like how am I going to grow my hearty kid again? Because I work more than full time and raise, you know, my family and I'm like it's okay, it'll come, it'll come, I know it's coming. I know it's coming, it's you know. I don't know necessarily that the toy needs to be a part of it anymore, but certainly asking kids these pertinent questions and having fun with it and having someone like me come into your classroom and just be playful and artistic and creative, it makes an imprint on kids.

I don't know why it's not a part of everyone's curriculum, but one day I think just hearing and I was a high school teacher I feel that there's something that happens with our kids as they get older where they're feeling like they're not validated.

They're not, and I understand that there's a, there's a growth piece that happens where they start to kind of figure out who they are and listen more to friends and what's happening. But I really would love to continue to build that I am and have students stand in their truth and who they are and be able to come into school and to classrooms being themselves and knowing that who they say they are is validated. I think that that's something that is was always very important to me as a high school teacher. And so what could this look like to continue that? Because sometimes I feel that as a in secondary ed, we're like, oh, the kids get this by now and we don't continue that growth with them, where I think it's a lifelong journey. You know, even at 45, going on 46, I'm still trying to figure out my I am's and stand in that with conviction.

Well, I think, probably you know your I am's and stand in your I am's that you know with conviction, but to have the courage to really claim them and own them and be in them. That's it, because you know your I am's. I've listened to your fabulous interviews. I've listened about you, yeah, like and really claiming that right what you're doing with the podcast. You do that with each and every episode.

Well, I think I can maybe speak for Craig and I and say that I think one of the reasons well, probably the main reason why we love doing this is because we get to meet and share our connections and get to talk to people like you, because I love your enthusiasm and your passion and I know my hearty kid is is go like we're going to look back and be like yep, we talked to her, we knew this was coming, this, we called it, but it is, it will.

And you know, all, in due time the world is ready, when the world is ready, and I don't know. I'm excited to see where, how, where, the light will open on this.

What do you feel is your superpower at this time?

No, I I know that my superpower is my intuition. It's been there since I was a little girl and it it never fails me and it's always there. I'll say something to someone like how did you know that? You know, and I just what a gift, what a gift to like my big love and my big heart, you know, like this is, this is who I am in the morning, this is who I am at night. And there are a couple of people who wouldn't say that's how I am, you know, but that's like family members or something. You know. That's kind of more cranky with family members, but I'm not a pretty positive person. I really just want to be out there helping in the world and yeah, that's it.

Well, thank you. Where can, how, what is the best way for people to connect with you who want, who will hear this podcast, will see it in social media and get curious, want to learn more, connect with you or maybe bring you into their school or community? How do they do that?

I would love to help in any way I can, and so probably the best way is with my lisapeppersatkincom website and there's contact information. There's also contact information on my hearty kid, but I think the best way is my big umbrella, lisapeppersatkin, and then I'll do what I can. You know I'll help, however I can, for sure, for sure, for sure.

Thank you.

Oh, oh my.

It is so much oh chance to talk.

Oh, wow, all right. Well, sel and edu family, we have had the honor and pleasure of spending quality time with Lisapeppersatkin. God. Check her out, all the ways that are that she shared, as well as ways that you're going to see it on the website. So get connected and I'm very serious about what I said Like if you just need a little dose of joy, just a little bit, and you can get a whole lot. You can definitely check her out in these different vehicles and, like I said, I saw on Facebook, I love a lot of the art there too.

So, sel and edu family, until, chris and I, we will be back again and we are so excited to spend not just this time but even more time with you in future conversations. So until then, until we connect again, we want you to stay fluid and flexible in all that you do. Allow joy to fill your spirit, but make sure you hold someone dear and that could be you real tight and do it with whole heartedness and joy and love and keep standing in the light. We love you Y'all, take care.