047: SEL, Homework, and the Role of Technology with Dr. Carrie Garippa

Welcome to SEL in EDU.

Where we discuss all things, social and emotional, in education. I'm Krista and I'm Craig and we are your hosts on this journey. All right, what is going on? Sel and EDU family we are back yet again and we have an incredible guest. Yes, we do. We're super excited. But before we go ahead and jump on into the conversation you have been waiting for and that's why you keep clicking and subscribing and downloading and sharing with your friends we got to check in. How are you holding up Krista? How's your heart today?

Ah, my heart is really good. It's been good. You know, one of the things that has been a huge lift for me is discovering that I actually like listening to books on audio. For a long time I'm like I can't focus, I can't do that. I have been whipping through books educational nonfiction like crazy and it just makes me so happy.

What is one of your favorites so far that you've been listening to?

You know what? I know this is going to sound strange, but there was one called Never Split, the Difference by Chris Voss. He was a hostage negotiator for the FBI and I think I might have mentioned it in an early, like a while ago podcast, but it is just stuck with me and he talks about empathy and how to ask questions, to connect with people and in his case it's to save people's lives, but for our case it's to develop deeper relationships and get to really understand somebody's perspectives. So really that has been one that has definitely stuck with me. I know your life has been very busy lately. You've got lots and you've had lots of travel and such, so I'm not sure if you've had a chance to kind of sit down and enjoy a good book.

I have been reading a couple of books. I just was. I was, I think, still processing the fact that you are. Are you looking to be any CIA, fbi secrets? Or okay, I just you know, I'm like who picks up a book for like negotiations by the CIA? Like I just looked it up and I was like, oh okay, chris got a whole new side hustle that I know about.

I'm like double secret agent. I'm going to say I'm a focused educator, but aside, I'm really like you know, Tom Cruise, and am I mission impossible like 2,700?

I know because he keeps going. I mean it looks great to be a person who was above a particular age, you know. So it looks wonderful. I'll say that because you know I don't want nobody who's a Tom Cruise fan to get upset with me. What?

are you?

trying to say I'm not ages. You know vintage now, so it's all good.

Vintage.

Yeah, so I, one of my, one of my favorite books that I've enjoyed from audible has been finding me by viola dates between that and redefining realness, which is, oh, janet Mach, so one of the writers for pose to my favorite books from audible, among many others, but, and yeah, I was part of that.

Thank you. I wrote that one down, redefining realness, and the one with the viola Davis's book. I listened to that too and her voice is incredible, and worry in her voice was just blew me away, so I'd highly recommend that one too.

Well, we could go on and on about all the books and stuff that we're taking away, but we have a one guest that we've been holding and just a queue, and I think you know, Chris, why don't you go ahead and introduce who is in the space with us.

I will, and I'll give a little note to our friend that I am probably going to ask what you've been reading or watching lately that you would recommend, so I'm just letting you know that ahead of time so I don't catch you off guard. But, friends, we have with us Dr Carrie Garippa, and she is an educator who is entering her 13th year of teaching sciences at the secondary level. Yes, like once you get past 10, it's like, oh, thank God. She has taught various biological and physical sciences in the classroom and acted as department chair and director of curriculum and instruction. Carrie graduated from the Drexel University with an EdD in educational leadership from 2020. She is also the curriculum director for inform your community, a New York based nonprofit.

Carrie has received training in restorative practices and social emotional learning through the International Institute for restorative practices and has been able to put that learning into practice in the last few years. I've got a great chance to meet Carrie while working with a school district near me and just loved her enthusiasm for SEL, for working with students, and actually had a chance to be invited into our classroom and to watch this in action. So, friends, I am so excited to welcome Carrie with us today. Hi Carrie, how are you?

Hi, I'm a little embarrassed, Like I'm a little red here. That was so nice to hear out loud.

You're very accomplished, like you've done amazing stuff. There's days I feel it. I hope today is one of those.

I do right now. Thank you for that, Carrie, and your energy is contagious both of you. I'm like over here dancing and my seat is listening to you.

See, I feed off of Craig too. Like every time we're in the same space. If Craig is not dancing, he will be soon with the music and he kind of gets me going and stuff too. So, carrie, what have you been reading or watching that has just really been filling your soul, or what have you been doing lately?

You know, the funny thing is I am so impressed that you remember what you read, because I am a voracious reader, but I don't ever remember what I read and I have. I grew this is a silly little thing, but I grew up in the library. My grandfather was a librarian at our local public library. Not, he was not like taught, it wasn't an educated library, but he worked there. So my summers were spent as a child in the library and I just I can go through books. So I spent two weeks in Canada with my family trying to reconnected, because my kids are old now and we, I think I read like seven books in two weeks. There's no TV, no cell service.

That's sometimes nice, though, to not get distracted.

It is, it is, but I don't remember the titles, but I can remember the stories. We did read one, you know, and I think I'm going to scare you a little, because we got nervous about her, got nervous about the CIA. I read one on serial killers, yeah, and and I don't know why, I read it. It was. I think I had read the ones I liked, and I just was like, oh, pick this one up. And I did learn some new techniques. As a woman, you know, you have to know how to outsmart.

Yes, well, and I think it could be useful in the classroom on how to bring in empathy. So we're supporting the growth of healthy individuals who they're not making lifetime movies about absolutely later on in hindsight.

Yeah, but I, you know, I start watching third season of only murders in the building, which is a favorite. That is a favorite.

I heard that was fabulous, and I've only watched the. I think they're on season three coming up now. I've seen the first couple episodes and then I got distracted with something which happens quite a bit, but I'm going to come back to that, thank you. Thank you, and so coming back to I know one of the questions I wanted to ask you is if you could talk to us about your journey that led you to the classroom and to doing what you're doing now, because one of the questions that we ask is like what have you published and what do you want to support out there? And I'm looking at your publications like holy cow, they're incredible. And I found your Google scholars page and we're going to link that up there and I'm like, oh, there's a story here. So we'd love to hear about your journey.

Yeah, it really is night and day, but I did work in research and I worked in maybe and maybe this is part of why I really have attached myself so hard to SEL is I worked with depression. We were looking for biomarkers genetic biomarkers for depression, and we did a lot of really deep dives in that and it was research at Lehigh University. I can say that in here. But I was there for 11 years and near the end of my time that I had to make a decision about halfway through was I going to finish my PhD or was I going to take a different path? And at that point I was having my babies and I was starting my own family.

And as much as I love that cerebral part of research where you know you're solving puzzles and there was no human connection, I had nothing there were. I always laugh and I say I could go days and not speak to another human and that was a. That was just part of it, yeah, so I was looking for something more and I ended up working with a summer Institute while I was there helping undergrads learn how to do research and I was like this is it? I'm actually kind of good at teaching young people how to appreciate science and love science the way I do and and that kind of just led to teaching. I didn't know that this was my path until I was in it.

It's. I love hearing those types of stories, because I didn't go to undergrad to be a teacher. It was sort of a backup and then once I was in it, I'm like, oh, this is where I need to be. This feels right, you know, and having been in your classroom, I can see how you work with the students and the connections and the conversations that you have that that feels like a home. That feels like that's just the energy that that you give. Often, I think, when we get an opportunity to be in a lot of people's classrooms, we can pick up on those types of things, and so I just thought that was a really an interesting journey and that it really sparked from that needing a human connection, even though you're already putting good out there.

Yeah, absolutely, and thank you for calling it a home. I always science by the time kids get to secondary especially. You know I've been teaching chemistry the last couple years and the engineering class was just what you were by the time you get to secondary or high school. They hate science not everybody, but a lot of them do and I try so hard to make it not just a safe place but a fun place to learn to embrace it again, because it can be awesome even for kids that will never take science again.

So what would be part of your? What is part of your recipe in regards to galvanizing that love for science and or maybe it's just inquiry, you know, because part of it may be this are you curious? Or interaction, or collaboration? So what do you feel is part of your recipe for reengagement and a love for the work that y'all doing?

the classroom.

That's a. That's a great question. I think humor is a big thing, I think, especially as science teachers in STEM. I'll just say STEM teachers take themselves way too seriously, and I don't take myself serious at all. Maybe that's part of a flaw, but just humor and being authentic and admitting I don't know things either, and then teaching them how to look it up. One of my favorite things I do is I call it Wednesday wisdom and it came from ooh, I think in 2014, 2015, I had a very, very inquisitive student in one of my classes and he would ask me questions, partly because he wanted to know, partly because he just wanted to get me off the subject I was supposed to be teaching.

Oh, never do that.

No, and one of the things I said, as I said, we need to set it apart a time where I will answer any question you want about science and I may know the answer, and if I don't, we'll find the answer together and they would put little slips of paper in a, in a bucket, as they thought of them, and and they would ask a question on a Monday and I'd say write it down, we'll answer on Wednesday. We can't stop thinking right now about this. It's progressed. It's definitely more technological. Now we use padlet and to but it. It takes away the shame of not knowing anything like. There's questions that they ask me and I'm like I have no idea. Let's look it up, because it's just a strange question, something that I didn't think of, and they may be nervous to ask that. And why? Why be nervous? Ask, ask people, somebody knows the answer somewhere.

And I think you mentioned about using padlet because not only now can you post the question, but other students can go look it up and post an answer and put the links and the videos, and that might even be something that they come back to a question from months ago and are like oh, by the way, look, here's something new to add there.

And I think that's just. You know, it's just a place where they can. They can ask anything they want and I think, that's just a place where they can. They can ask anything they want. I would love to lean in a little bit more about the Wednesday with Wednesday wisdom, and I'll be curious.

Could you share a little bit more insight on a time when you're like, Wow, this is why I created when Wednesday wisdom? I know you said that it was generated from a very curious young person who you had, but when did you know? Like, All right, I think we're on to something and this is the reason why this is it.

Yeah, so that same era of kids and the old school I was at, we actually traveled with them. So I had them for four years. So by the time I got to year four I didn't know what I was getting into. So he one of the students had asked about the different. He said if there's black holes, can there be white holes? And I didn't know that answer.

And this is this is the coolest thing and this is where I think we miss opportunities as educators. So through that we ended up really exploring space. We ended up going to the Goddard Center in down in Maryland, three hour drive, but we made it. We ended up going talking to people from NASA. We ended up creating a research methods class. It was like four kids, but they taught them how to do science research, because that is a skill. And then we ended up partnering with this foundation, which I cannot recall the name right now, but they actually had connections to some NASA space captains and zoomed in and these kids got to talk to someone who's been to space and it came from that question.

What a great example of some taking a question and then extending it. And you know we've talked together around research, of building relationships in the classroom, and one of the pieces of research that I use is from the search institute and it talks about how the students want us to get to know them, to build trust, to share power with them, but then to extend their possibilities and connect them to people and experiences that they hadn't even thought of before. And that's a perfect example of you doing that, because you leveraged a curiosity that one of them had is like let's see where this goes, and understanding to that. That doesn't need to be channeled a little bit, because you know, you do know that sometimes kids are like I don't really want to do this today, what can we do together? Or him kind of off task. I mean, my own boys used to tell me about how they would do that to teachers, but it's still honoring the questions that they have.

And then, like wow, we talked to people who are in space and we started a research course and and I think this kind of fits in with where the next question I wanted to ask you is that, looking at the nonprofit that you're a part of called inform your community. I want to go on to the website. It talks about informing your community and that we don't have to be experts in every issue. But what can we learn and do? And so would you mind sharing a little bit about that work that you do there and the support that that you give the organization and what the goal is?

I would love to talk about them. It was, it was a blessing to have found these people and they are amazing. And one of my favorite things that they talk about we had just gone in, my husband and I went into a gallon. He got to meet people for the first time is that it's about productive discourse, where you don't have to leave the table happy and you don't have to leave the table agreeing with each other. It's about listening and opening up that communication and really taking the time to learn from each other.

We tackle the most amazing topics. It's so funny because I just reclaimed my desk. I have college kids and I was just looking at some of the things that we've done lately. We've done a lot of things with culture Jewish culture, mexican culture, chinese culture. We did a black lives matter. I'm currently working on animal welfare. We do voting rights. We've done we've done a lot with LGBTQ, but we also do things like how can you sustainably you know eat? How can we talk about the unhoused in a way that you're not? You're not bringing like sympathy, you're bringing empathy to the table under, yeah, and so it's just this amazing place to be and and we're like minded in the fact that we're willing to listen and learn, and but that doesn't mean we're all in that same tunnel vision thought process.

Besides me think very deeply and, granted, I know that you're, a great deal of your expertise is with secondary young people who are much older, but I believe the skills are transferable to the youngest of learners that we have, and it starts with just curiosity, like a lot of what generates genius and innovation and great friendship starts with some curiosity and just kind of really getting to know the phenomena of the person.

You know just what's in front of you and around you and being able to engage in that in a very powerful way.

I am curious in this age of where we've been talking about AI a lot, and I'm sure that that has built some really interesting conversations for you as well as other educators, and I'm not going to focus my question on AI, just it's at the top of my right now.

But I guess, as we look at the impact of social media, there's so much, so many resources at the hands of young people today in ways that we didn't have when we were in their shoes. I'm curious for you how do you leverage technology and social media to some of the different tools that we have access to in creating community, and how have you shaped the environment that you are leading the lead learner with, as well as how you may also foster that in collaboration with other departments, other team members, because I know that this is not you as a monolith. I have strongly believed, at least from what I could see from your work, that you work in a very collaborative spirit across many classrooms. So just kind of curious are you cultivating community with all of these different technologies that we have today?

I think one of the places that we fail as educators is banning the things that we just don't want to deal with, and that's one of and I'm not the one leading that charge, but I'm definitely on the team trying to introduce new things. We do have policies and everyone kind of adheres to the same policy the phones can't be out all the time but we all kind of deal with it a little differently. I try really hard to kind of go at it two different ways. One is and we had a lesson, and I think we're having a lesson again this year on social media and microaggressions and all the things that kind of fall into to harming students and we talk about it very openly and I tried to be a role model, because that's also important and give them some space to find their own way, but also explain, from a parent and an adult view, how to navigate that.

The other thing is I bring it into the classroom by putting that you can't go on TikTok. Nope, no TikTok whatsoever. You are telling a teenager please go on TikTok, figure out a way to get on TikTok. And so instead I'm like okay, you know what? Do a TikTok on this and you can count it. If you don't want to write me an essay, you don't like to write great, go make me a TikTok and send it to me and taking it. It's one of those funny things where when you normalize it, it's no longer fun, like Dr Kareepa is doing it and she's old, so I don't want to even bother and oh, please, don't let her follow me.

I'm laughing because I'm thinking vintage now, because of Craig saying that I think I'm going to adopt that. Yeah, but as soon as yeah, that's been my experience too you say absolutely not. And you're like oh, here comes the wave of like, and you know what. I was like that as a kid too. As soon as you told me I couldn't do something, I'm like oh yeah, you know, and that just creates I know, this is not a video, so you guys can't see me all like, you know, pushing my hands against each other, but it just creates mismatches and mistrust and leads to problems that don't really need to be there.

Well, and they you know students are not, they are savvy they will find us. And if you have a Twitter or a TikTok or an Instagram, or they're never going on Facebook because there's no way, that's where all the boomers are but if you had any of that, they're going to find you.

And if you're sitting in front of the classroom saying, no, you can never use this, instead of teaching them how to use it responsibly, right? If you say no, no, no, you can never use this, and then they find you on it. You lost all leverage at that point.

Yeah, that's true, and one of the things that you mentioned earlier too is, you know, helping our students understand how to navigate these things, while balancing that with giving them enough freedom to figure some things out on their own, like, I find that, as a parent too, it's a very fine line between you know, here's what we'd recommend and here's some advice I'd give you, but I do know you need to try some things out yourself.

And you mentioned about, you know, microaggressions, and perhaps that could even go into you know, mistreatment and bullying. And so, really, when we think about how are we helping our students make good decisions in the classroom and how are we supporting them, I know that you have been educated around restorative practices and I'm excited to share that. I got trained this summer too, so now I can speak the language and see how that is really infused into creating a culture of SEL. And so, when you think about creating that culture in your classroom with the background that you have, what do you see works well when we're helping to provide opportunities for students to really shine and to practice developing in those skill sets?

You know, one of the things it depends on the class. I'm going to say it like that because I've had three very, very different versions of kids enter my room and I think one of the most valuable lessons that I could probably share is from the class that had the most offenses on them. And you know they're the kids that they hear people saying things, they see the faces that get made, they see just that harshness towards them or the discounting them. And I. One of the things I try very hard when I'm speaking to them is listening and making them feel that I'm respecting what you're telling me and then I will. I will guide where I go from there. And I don't know if that came from restorative practices or if it came from SEL or if it came, it married them together and put them in place. But it changes the climate of learning when the kids feel like they don't have to be in the wrong guard and that came from, okay, you get a whole circle just to tell me what you don't want me to do.

Yeah, I was one of those young people who rebelled against the system at times, because I don't mind you meeting me with curiosity, but I mean, it's been that close to many times. But you tell me not to do. I'm going to unless there's a good reason why I'm going to find myself going the way you don't want me to go Because and I'm like that at points as an adult so sometimes we find ourselves uncomfortably comfortable yes, I'm using that intentionally with swimming against stream, because we have been put into conditions that feel like the very air we breathe has been sucked out of us, and so I'm trying to think of how I'm going to make, how I'm going to bring this back home. But I, you know, I, some of the greatest minds have had to fail forward and sometimes it feels like the rose peak. Sometimes I, young people, are going and tick, tock or whatever you know mediums that they're trying to leverage, they.

There's an assumption that because they're going to these mediums, that they're not fruitful in regards to what they can inspire, and so I realized that there's been some brilliance and I saw how students have tapped into podcasts, some very interesting media that people have been developing who actually have a lot, have done a lot of research.

I mean, have all the credentials, but they've done a lot of research and they just have found a compelling way to be able to share some really great wisdom.

And so I am curious on you know, as we talked earlier about your, your leveraging humor, being open to students, really asking some interesting questions that may take you down all kinds of paths but have found some fruit and found some really great opportunities for recombinations. And so here's where I'm landed with my question, because I'm just finding myself in a tsunami of interesting entry. And the beginning of our conversation you talked about having students arrive at your class and not feeling not excited, motivated to take chemistry or science and whatnot. And you know, there we have a wide spectrum of educators who may listen to this today how elementary and middle school young people to not lose that sense of fire and excitement or entry by, like, what would be your wisdom or recommendations to educators and school leaders who are working with young people early on with all of these tools they love to use, but we don't want to quell that fire that they have. So what would be your advice to those folks?

Real-world applications that actually matter to the kids. And I'm going to give you an example. When they're in first grade, when they're in second grade, right, they're learning about photosynthesis. The teacher takes them outside. They go look at leaves. They go pick leaves. Maybe they grind them up, right, they do the little, right. They look at the green coming out of it. They're learning about whether they go outside. They look at the clouds.

They get to middle school, maybe upper elementary middle school, and now it becomes and you know you can't fight the system right, there's tests involved and there's tests that they grade the teacher, they grade the kids, they grade the state, whatever, and you can't get rid of those, you absolutely can't. So teachers get stressed, right, there's content they have to hit. I have to hit all of these standards and I have to get all this in, and it becomes book work, and I don't even enjoy reading science books. I've been doing this for how many years? I don't want to read a science book, and you know it's a little extra effort and it's really hard to say that, right, because teachers are like I don't have time for extra effort, got it? So everyone takes one topic and you do a railroad application, or and this is where I kind of sit, this is where my wheelhouse is it's as the kids we were doing.

We were doing ions, right, so sodium, right, chlorine, all that and I said how do you want to learn about this? Because this is really a boring thing to learn about. How do you want me to teach? Well, you said it's in water, dr Grip. Yes, well, is it in seawater? Yes, they wanted to learn about oceans. I was in chemistry, high school chemistry. Right, oceans isn't really, but you know what I can easily do that, and the internet has given us the gift that you can find it. I found an entire curriculum out of Hawaii on ions in the ocean and, you know, sent an email. Hey, thanks, because I'm taking that. That worked with one class, only one class, because nobody else wanted to learn about oceans. I had another group. They wanted to learn about cooking.

Chemistry and cooking is awesome. We made cookies Like we made. We made, we made coffee. We tested how to brew the best coffee, because the one kid worked at Starbucks and he makes awesome coffee, by the way. I still go visit him. But what works in one class isn't going to work in the other, because it's the kids. So how do you want to learn chemistry? Because this is what we want to learn about. Here's some ideas the topics. Does anybody want to learn about that? And that's how you go with it and that's my advice to every educator out there. We can hit standards. We don't have to hit them just by rolling through them. And it's more important and I know testing is hard, right, because you have to hit a certain amount, but there are some things that it is more important to go deep than walked, and that's how we set our kids up for success. Really.

I wish you would have been my science teacher because I was one of those like I needed the real world application in science and in math and not just the theoretical pieces of it. But how can I be using this in my life? And I love that you ask them how do you want to learn about this? And I'm going to link it back to a restorative practices piece that you mentioned earlier around circles, and I have always done things in circles or tried to, because a mentor of mine had told me about it. Even my classroom, before I had met him, was set up. It was a horseshoe, so it wasn't quite there, but it was a double horseshoe because of the space.

But when we create a circle, we are one, creating a community where everybody is facing each other, that we're connected. But even you, being a part of that, are putting yourself on equal ground with the students and like let's explore this together and tell me what you like and what you don't like. Like, instead of it being a top down procedure, you're establishing that trust and community in your classroom where you're learning with the students and you're modeling that. And that's the SEL pieces as well, I think, and I wanted to make just some really concrete connections and that when we talk about being curious and open-minded, that's under responsible decision making.

And when you're asking students you know, tell me how you want to explore this. You're connecting with them and being aware of what they like and what they don't like and how they want to learn, and I really appreciate that approach, because not every class is going to need the same thing and it can seem overwhelming. And so how do you, what are some of the maybe the barriers or the hiccups that you come around? Or how do you not get overwhelmed yourself with your desire to want to meet all of the students' needs in a very meaningful and relevant way? How do you manage that for yourself and your work so that it is doable and you don't get burned out?

I think this is gonna be the popular, unpopular opinion with some teachers. I think the way I manage it is by finding ways to assess the learning. That does not include grading 300 worksheets. I am very realistic in what happens when they leave my room and leave the school at 2.30. These kids are overbooked or they're dealing with things at home that I'm dealing with as an adult and they're 15. And so it can go either way. But either way, the reality is at home.

Chemistry is not a priority, and so I really capitalize on every bit of time I can, and homework is just an afterthought.

And I know that's not a very popular opinion, especially with some old school teachers. But I don't see as much value in doing the same topic of question 50 times to prove you can learn it, Because you know what. Half those kids are copying it from the one smart kid who did it, and so you know what. I'm gonna ask you one question, and you're gonna get some time in class to do it, because you'll probably actually do it honestly, with integrity, if you're in my classroom and it's going to ask you not just the content question but how you got there and critical thinking skills and how would you change it? Or I might ask them to set up an entire experiment based on the fact that we just did laboratory equipment review or something. And to me, grading one question is a lot easier on my sanity than grading a lot of them that really aren't. It's not progressing learning to have them do that worksheet. Well, if I answered that fully.

If I can add in, yes, and I think that's a great reminder for people. It reminds me, too, about going to people talk about the single point assessment. But how can we think smarter and not have our students be working harder without an end in sight? And a friend of mine who does a lot of deep educational research has told me many times that the only homework that truly is effective for students is reading at home, just to continue reading. It can be anything but read for the love of learning and that that is the most effective, and that all the other work that we give students doesn't really have any outcomes on their grades or GPA or achievement.

And once they get into secondary level, the work we're expecting them to do for homework is the hard work, and you're asking them to do it without anyone there to help them, and that seems really unfair to me. You know what? Go home, take notes. Here's what I need you to take notes on, so that tomorrow, when you come in, we can talk about it and I can clear up any misconceptions you have. But to go home and do work that I went over in 10 minutes and I expect you to be, that's not fair. It happens when we're adult students that you're given some ridiculous thing and you're what do we do? We call each other, you get with your cohort, you're on a Zoom like how do we do this? And some of the kids don't have those resources. And if you talk about an even playing field, okay, everyone can take notes. That's writing. I don't care how you take them, I don't care if you print it out and glue it in your notebook. You have the notes.

I'm processing what you're sharing. It really beams for me because we don't. We haven't really talked about accessibility, we haven't talked about privilege, we haven't talked about the barriers that still persists regardless of demographic, regardless of the family structure that you're living in as a young person and, post during the pandemic and post pandemic, it feels like, regardless of whether or not kids have very, very few resources to kids who may have been born into environments where they have two parents or two caregivers who have all of the things we have seen at every, all kinds of young people across the entire globe have been deeply impacted and don't show up atypical to what we are hoping they will, and are trying to leverage what they can, just to be, whatever that means, and so I appreciate the fact that they have a caring educator who is being very thoughtful about how do you balance the experience so that, no matter what you have or don't have, that you have the ability to come in the next day and galvanize in working partnership with so many others in their classrooms so that they don't feel like they're behind. So I appreciate that. I was on your LinkedIn, where I see a great deal of things that you might share, and one.

This is gonna lead me to the question that we ask all of our guests. But you have this one post with a car being held and it says because I have this crazy idea that my purpose is bigger than me, and so that's a big, big, big idea to hold in one's heart. As people are getting ready for, at this point, first day of the school if they haven't already started or at the time they hear this podcast, they're gonna be rethinking things because it's gonna be closer to the holiday and winter and all kinds of things are happening and people may be rethinking their purpose at this moment when they're here in this podcast. And so I appreciate that and I feel like I have a good sense of what the answer is. But we love to hear your own thinking, because what do you believe is your superpower at this point?

You know I'm not faking, being humble when I say I don't think I have a superpower, but I'll manage that. I'll manage that. I'll manage that. I'll manage that. But I'll manage. When I think connections, I think I can connect and when I can't, it hurts me because I feel like I have failed. And it could be a small connection.

I'm not looking for deep, I mean, I'm always looking for deep connections, but it's not gonna be like that with everyone. But if I can get something, something that I know, that that student realized I cared actually cared not cared about their grade that I cared about them, that I saw their face every day or I cared about things that were happening outside my room, it just that becomes like my goal. And I think my superpower is that, the tenacity to not give up, to not give up that connect. Like no, he hasn't talked to me. All year I had a student didn't talk to me for almost the entire semester and I never stopped trying. So I was like, no, I'm gonna get it. So my tenacity and and and you know what, I didn't get a lot of words, but I got some and that's all that mattered. And he, he made me happy just for, and so that's going to be my superpower is the ability to get that connection.

Thank you, Thank you oh.

I really love to say like I want my superpower here to look like. I want to be like invisible or flying, but reality I can make a connection.

And that, and that's one that people like oh, would you rather? Would you rather fly or be invisible, like if you had to pick?

you know I don't want to be invisible. But I can tell you why I don't want to be in a room and invisible and hear something I don't want to hear, because it doesn't even have to be about me. I just don't. There's right, because you're your places and you hear something and you're like oh, I'm judging you now and I don't want to go there, I, I, so I'm definitely going to fly.

Craig, what would you do if you had to pick invisibility or flying?

I do feel like I'm already working from an invisibility perspective. There's a lot, as a leader, that people don't know that you're doing on their behalf, and so that to be visible and do it sometimes is a question of ego, and why are you telling us that you're doing anything? And so what I've learned is that I probably have harnessed that power of invisibility to some degree. That's been value add to those who don't even know it was for them and flying would be cool. I just got to master the whole heights thing and I'm, like you know, all right.

Yeah, you can hover. Ooh the way, it's not a just hover.

I hope that I get to. Yes, you don't need to be super far up there, but yeah, the hovering. That was really well said, craig, and I think we need to dig into that on another podcast, I think that'd be great you know what.

That was one of the when I was a leader. That was one of my struggles is that I didn't want, because you see leaders that point out look what I did, look what I did. But the backlash when you are invisible and your work is invisible and you're being treated poorly, yeah, and then you kind of have that like I want to tell you what I've done, that you just don't know that that's a struggle. I really have enjoyed taking a step back from leadership and just kind of hanging out being a teacher again.

That's interesting hearing you both say that, because as a as somebody who spent many years as an instructional coach, I hovered, I felt like an island between administrators and teachers, and so I was privy to a lot of what might have been considered behind the scenes or the why and when that transparency wasn't there, that's when the teachers started to get upset because they didn't know what was happening, and so sometimes I tried to connect that. But I see what you're saying too, from what some could consider coming from an ego perspective and what that really fine balance is. I don't envy that position at all.

Yeah, I'm still working through. There's so many parts and many aspects of my own humanity that I'm continuing to either nourish or nurture, or I'm trying to recalibrate because it's no longer helpful.

So yeah, there's a very thought provoking ending here coming together. I foresee that there could be some future conversations here between the three of us and what it's, especially from the two of you being in a position of leadership and kind of taking a break, because there's quite a number of people that we know in the last couple of years who've done the same thing and I'm like you know what, and I think that's also a very healthy way of looking at things. And so you know, when is it time to step back and to maybe start working in a different direction. Still have the same values and the same desire for work to support students and educators, but coming at it from a different perspective can be really powerful.

I think it would if people felt the freedom to do that without shame. Right, because it is a step. It's a step down, but it's not, it's a step towards healthy mentality. Like you know, if you, if your mental health is suffering, then you step down and it's not shameful, it's just I need to be here to heal.

And even just the wording. So stepping down, like maybe it can just be stepping to the side or stepping forward, but diagonally, you know, like changing paths.

I don't know something, yeah.

So, carrie, if there are any educators out there who are either science teachers or leaders who are looking to step a different direction, or people who want to learn more about infusing SEL and restorative practices, how can they get a hold of you? What would be, you know, the best way to reach out, or a couple avenues that they could get a hold of you?

I would say that the easiest is linked in. You put it going through my profile Everything comes to my phone. Now, however, if it's coming to my work email, the kids and the parents and the administrators are going to take priority. But linked in is I'm sitting at home and going through my phone and there's some someone I want to talk to. So and I love to talk about anything. So, yeah, I would be happy to share and learn from anyone that wants to share what they have to. So thank you.

And for those of you listening, as we always do, you know that you'll have access to a Carrie's Google Scholar link, and we'll have her linked in in the notes so that you can feel free to reach out.

All right, sel, the EDU family it has been a great conversation. As you have heard, chris, this year like we're going to go ahead and make sure you got access to all the good stuff so that, in your own time and in your own way, you can continue to edify your work and walk and talk. This is incredible work, but it's most meaningful, and we've had an opportunity to spend our time with Carrie today, and so we are so thankful that you have shared your genius and heart with us today. So thank you. So, as the other EDU family, until we return once again, we want you to continue to hold you and those you love dear, real, tight, and continue to do the wonderful work you do and continue to stand in the light. We love you, we love you, we take care.