Sept. 4, 2024
061: The Educator's Odyssey: From Classroom Trials to Shared Triumphs with Ming Shelby and Chase Mielke
Have you ever wondered how to keep the spark alive in the demanding teaching world? Join us as Ming Shelby and Chase Mielke bring their invigorating insights to our latest podcast, where we delve into the highs of novice teacher enthusiasm and navigate the treacherous terrain of potential burnout. We'll unpack what it takes to construct a "burnout immune system," celebrating those tiny yet profound moments with students that remind us why we stepped into the classroom in the first place.
Our conversation turns towards the lighter side in a profession that often feels like a balancing act between gravity and joy. From the cultural ripples of shows like Abbott Elementary to personal tales highlighting the quirky moments of teaching life, we explore how humor and vulnerability can be our most significant tools in education. We even let you in on some classroom blunders, proving that sometimes our most mortifying experiences can endow us with unexpected 'superpowers.'
Sharing stories, laughter, and a few jokes, we celebrate the collective journey of learning, living, and thriving alongside our SELinEDU family. It's not just about thriving in the classroom—it's about fostering a community that basks in the light of support, growth, and, most importantly, joy.
EPISODE RESOURCES:
- Listen to the Educator Happy Hour podcast
- Connect with Ming via her website, X, Instagram, and Facebook.
- Connect with Chase via his website, X, Instagram, and Facebook.
- Read Chase’s ASCD articles.
Chapters
00:03 - Navigating Novice Teacher Enthusiasm and Burnout
11:24 - Navigating Challenges and Finding Joy
19:58 - Balancing Seriousness and Joy in Education
23:17 - Surrounding Yourself With Light and Joy
26:37 - Embarrassing Stories and Superpowers
34:34 - Educator Happy Hour Podcast Collaboration
Transcript
WEBVTT
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All right, all right, all right.
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Sel at ETH Family.
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I cannot wait to get into this episode right here.
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This will be what?
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Hey, there's honey.
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I'm just saying, crystal, how you doing I'm already starting to laugh.
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We just came off of recording one episode where I said to Craig like do you know anybody who sucks Like everybody that you introduce me to just blows me away and I'm spiraling in this whole big learning like aha moments, and not to put the pressure on our guests or anything, but I'm thinking it's going to happen again, so no pressure or anything, but I'm ready to have these like great aha moments and just it'll change my whole view of education.
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It might turn into a bah-ha-ha-ha-ha moment Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.
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Is that a dad joke?
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Is Meen bringing dad jokes into this right now?
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I think I just did the first one.
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So this is the challenge.
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Can you all up your dad joke game for this episode?
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Welcome to SEL and EDU podcast, where we put out the dad jokes and we talk about baking and cooking and, by the way, education and teacher well-being, and students, craig, how are you.
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This is a oh, this is such a day.
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Ok, I just so for podcasters who are like what in the world is happening?
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This is the y'all are a little weird right now.
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It is OK, like, navigate with us, it's all right, just take, it's all right.
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Our guests are also the hosts of a podcast.
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They're the hosts of Educator Happy Hour podcast and I met May Shelby during the whole COVID thing.
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We talked about this on your podcast in Clubhouse and we just kind of connected.
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It was on SEL Day.
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You were hosting something.
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You're like, hey, do you want to jump in?
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Yeah, sure, and we just clicked.
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I'm like, oh my, this woman is amazing and she does it all while raising twins, which I don't know how you do this.
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I have been in all of you.
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And then you introduced me to Chase and I'm like, oh my, we need to have you both on.
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So SEL and EDU family, you have got four of us on.
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But let me introduce you to our guests.
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Ming Shelby is a TEDx speaker, national board certified educator, who has dedicated her career to inspiring students, teachers and administrators through positive learning experiences.
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She believes that courage is the critical ingredient for personal transformation.
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Ming also hosts the podcast Courage Up, where she shares stories of courage so people can learn to thrive, not just survive.
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Chase Milky is an award-winning educator, writer and speaker focusing on preventing teacher burnout and increasing student engagement, and one of his quotes that I love is you can't be effective without being affective.
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And so, chase and Ming, we are so happy to have you with us.
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I'm going to throw this out to both of you and just see what happens when you both are on mute.
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But how are your hearts today?
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I'm pulling a nose, guys, ming you first I thought you would go first.
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Did you notice that that was the quietest we've been on the podcast so far?
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Well, Ming thinks I'll dive in.
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I love this about Chase.
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He doesn't like awkward silence.
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So what's on my heart and where I'm at right now is I have yesterday and I was sending him a message and meaning I have three massive projects that came to my mind of things I want to do, and I had a moment where I was like I'm not even finished with the current project I'm on and I'm getting excited about these other things, and so my heart feels frantic of just all these ideas.
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There's so much I want to get done, but also that moment of I probably need to focus on just one thing at a time, as I remind myself.
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So it's good, but it's definitely some of that needs the reins taken in.
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Focusing on one thing is totally overrated Chase, especially for people like us.
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I'm going to say I'm still learning how to do that.
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So if you have any pointers, share them.
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Thank you.
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On Monday I started the job fair recruitment extravaganza that this time of year brings, so we went to our first one and I love doing job fairs because one I get to just say how great education is now, even though sometimes we have our ups and downs.
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But what I love the most, where they are just like so excited for changing the world, or like it's just like you just look at them and they have excitement, wonder.
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They're like I can't wait to have my first classroom, I can't wait to impact my first group of students.
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They just are so excited to make a difference and make an impact with students, and so I love just being in that space.
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Chase, I know you talk about teacher burnout and me talking about being around, that enthusiasm of new people coming into novice teachers, and I think about where I was 24 years ago and almost to the point, probably, where somebody needed to rein me back in and be.
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You need to be realistic, going to change the world and this was also true disclosure around the time of dangerous minds and freedom writers.
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Kids don't need to be saved.
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You're not a savior for kids, but how can I help empower students to become their best selves and support them in their learning journey?
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And so I wonder what are you seeing in some of our novice teachers and has that energy reinvigorated?
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You and Chase along those same lines?
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How does that relate to, then, your work around teacher burnout and what happens when we start off is so excited and just ready to get out there and make a difference, and then we end up on that other side.
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That's a great question.
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So I think the evolution of my work around burnout very much started in focusing on the individual of what are the individual skills, strategies rooted in research that we can apply.
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Because that was like my life I was burning out and thankfully I knew a lot of the research around positive psychology and just human motivation in general.
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I leaned on those strategies hard.
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But then, in getting a chance to work with hundreds of schools across the US over the past few years, it's the realization that it's not the individual's fault, it's the system, and there are many factors within educational school systems that make it hard for people to not get burned out.
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And so I think a lot about how much focus goes into, oh, these young teachers, and we tell them things like oh, don't get too exuberant, don't get too excited, when it's like we're blaming them for the fact that they're running into these walls within the system.
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So rather than focusing the energy on how do we remove some of those barriers and those walls that exhaust teachers and don't support them and give them autonomy, we instead just try to throw it all on the person.
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You need to manage yourself and your own energy, when that's a very incomplete picture of what's actually happening in so many schools.
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I have a different experience than what Chase is describing, and so this is where we go.
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So I think, like as a first year teacher, you think like I student taught, I did all this, I'm going to go out, I have everything that I need.
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And the reality is, when we're starting as and I can only speak as a Jenna and classroom teacher because that's my experience there are so many things that we don't have, that we're not ready for, and I was really really lucky that I was part of a district that was a model PLC district.
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I had amazing teammates that helped me, supported me, and so when you know bills come like we joke around in in the office like, okay, it's not the kids fault, it's the teacher's fault, it's not the teacher's fault, it's the principal's fault.
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It's not the principal's fault, it's central office.
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It's not central office, it's the county, the state, the legislator.
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You know like you can play the game, play the blame game and go up the hierarchy as far as you want.
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And I just felt really lucky that I had this amazing team.
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We were so passionate about the work we were doing.
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Was it exhausting?
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Were there times that you know we're like what is this all for?
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Does this even matter?
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But I remember us just like working together so closely that we were really clear on what our values as a team was, what we would allow as a team, what we wouldn't allow.
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I remember us inviting the superintendent coming to talk to us because our school was multi -age and we're like here's why we're so passionate about it, here's where we see this going, does this align with the vision of the district?
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And so like it was just really rejuvenating.
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I just feel really lucky that I had that great team.
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I don't know if I would have the same experience and education of wanting to continue without that core team.
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And so, while Chase is like, yes, I get the whole system, I think the people that you're surrounded by make the biggest impact and the biggest difference.
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All right now.
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I'm not sure whether or not this is the happy hour because I'm like this is impressive, so I guess one of the one of the tensions that I'm observing.
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So I just transitioned out of my full-time role as an executive director and superintendent last July.
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When you have carried a community cold carried, it wasn't just me, it was never just I, it was always the entire community.
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But leading the community through pandemics and more, and now being on the other side where I'm a full-time entrepreneur, I could see the essence of what you're sharing about the power and teaming and knowing that folks are wrestling through very, very ever-changing waters in regards to the state of education.
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But, depending on where you are, you have all these political fights about what is best for young people, and rarely do we just talk to the young people in the classrooms about how are they experiencing it all.
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And so I'm just curious for both of you, as you either support, counsel and engage with educators who are looking at social media.
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That seems to be the temperature gauge for the state of education at this time.
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How do you keep teachers inspired to stay the course and do this work and live into the call when burnout is real?
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I could much more by myself, versus staying the course and answering the call of being a teacher who is a rainbow in somebody's class.
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So what are your thoughts about that?
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Hire Chase Milky and come speak at your institute day, which is what I did.
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There's the plug, there's the meddling right there.
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There are a number of things that you brought up, craig, that I think are worth noting.
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Number one is I advise a lot of folks to be cautious of using social media as the barometer of how education and society in schools are, because how those are designed is to create algorithms that get more views and get more spotlight, and so, to some extent, we have to be mindful of what we're exposing ourselves to.
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In terms of assessing what is really happening in my life and in my world, I talk a lot about building what I call a burnout immune system, and it's kind of that reality of we're never going to get rid of all the bad and all the challenges and all the struggle and strife.
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But what we can do is we can build up our immune system so that when we do have challenging moments or we are seeing other educators who hate the job and want to be done, we at least have enough positive experiences, positive relationships, autonomy, competence within our skill set that we can look back and say, yep, even though that is bad, I at least know what my skills and ability and purpose are, and I think it's that moment of being real and authentic.
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That education is really fricking hard sometimes and it doesn't come with the most notoriety and just praise as we would like.
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But if we look down at the facts of how we impact lives and what we care about and how we utilize those skills, it's kind of that inward draw and trying to build from the inside out rather than expecting social media to fix it or expecting all these things.
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So I know that's kind of a dichotomy to what I said earlier of like we know the systems are struggling but it's almost like we have to turn inwardly first to really draw that as our source of moving forward.
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I'm hearing what you're saying too, because we can't always change the system right away.
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But what we can change within our locus of control is our response and kind of our instincts and the coping mechanisms that we develop that can help us then start to build some allyship, to start dismantling some of those pieces of the system that are hurtful.
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So I hear what you said you mentioned.
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It may be counter, but it makes a lot of sense thinking about how you're surviving within that system.
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Yeah, because it comes down to I talk a lot about agency and advocacy.
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Those are the two moves.
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So you have your inward agency of focusing on what you can control, and if you can't have direct control, then how do you use advocacy to try to create some of those changes, even on a small scale, around you?
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I think for some people they have to make that decision of like, okay, do I need a break, do I need to step away from this exact role of education and how do I also shift how I view my work, that education and teaching aren't always synonymous.
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That there's a lot we can do to support educational systems and empower lives.
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That don't mean we have to stick in the same role, same situation, if it really is us running against a wall and burning ourselves out.
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This is going to sound so cheesy and corny.
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I am a strong believer in finding the joy and these little moments and Sean Acour, who's also a positive psychologist, he talks about, like gratitudes or journaling, a positive moment, the dirt, the doubler and revisiting that.
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And I just remember like we're planning something really fun and exciting.
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Like this is going to come up and I can't wait to teach it to students and you're there and you're like look at the joy on their faces and it's just incredible.
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We're one of the schools that I support.
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They're doing like March Madness Book Tournament right now.
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So I was a guest reader to see if, like, the book would go on to the next level.
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I walked in and the teachers were like so solemn, like real.
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I'm like what's happening in the light?
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The light was turned off in the room and I'm like you have kids in front of you who are like, so excited to read, and so it's like you don't have to be happy and smiling like every moment of every day, but I think it's just like appreciating those small things, and so I know that can sound come across like really naive.
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I also think like we're so lucky that we get to work with students that no other profession are we directly impacting the future and so and we've talked about this like what's the value, like we're shifting to our focus.
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So that's how I see it and maybe people are like it's like so rose colored glasses, polyana and of course, there's like hard moments too.
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Right, we all have these hard moments, but it's like how we frame it and Chase talks about that too the finite mindset A lot of what you're sharing has me think about why Abbott elementary has been such a prolific time.
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Right and shout out to Quinta Brunson who has created such a masterpiece.
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That is fun, it's accessible to folks.
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It really has drawn a lot of conversations about like is this really what the classroom looks like on a day to day?
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Is this how schools run?
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Is this really?
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How realistic is this?
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And so I think about the fact that we don't see as many of those fun moments show up in our social media.
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If I'm being honest and you know, you know when I think, chase, about what you're talking, about re-centering on what's important, what's within your power make you talk about the beauty of community and working and navigating all the things that happen, but doing this in community and knowing that those folks represent something so great when you're trying to do this, I mean immense work of changing young people's lives through the power of education.
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I am curious about what has been one of the most inspiring stories or conversations you've had.
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I guess maybe in the last you know, few months or a year.
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That keeps you continuing to have these conversations.
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This is so interesting.
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This is good, craig.
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Okay, so actually, chase, you've heard the story.
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So I taught, I worked in a previous district as an instructional coach and I worked with this teacher who teaches middle school English, and a couple months ago I got an email from our webmaster.
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That was like hi Ming, I don't know if you remember me.
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She reached out to me.
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I haven't spoken during five years.
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She was like I'm not sure if, like this is for me, I'm not quite sure where I'm going, like can we talk?
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And so I'm like here's my number.
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Of course I remember you.
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Like let's get together, let's talk what's going on.
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And so we got together.
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This is going to be a longer story than I anticipated.
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And she was like the kids are different.
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This is really hard.
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I really can't do this.
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It's really hard.
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I really can't do my seventh and eighth period blocks.
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Like they don't care about education.
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One kid came in and said I hate this class.
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And I told him like you're really hurting my feelings.
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That's so disrespectful to me, that's so disrespectful to the class.
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Like why are you saying things like that?
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She's like parents don't care, ming, I'm calling them.
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No one's calling me back.
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Like I just can't do this, and so I listened to her.
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We went through some coaching conversations and eventually I just said you're making this about you.
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She's like what?
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And I'm like you're taking it personally and she's like it is personal and I'm like it's not about you and I just had to be really direct.
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And she's like, oh my gosh, I felt like I just like smacked her in the face, you know, and she's like it's not about me.
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And so we debriefed and talked about what does that mean when the kid?
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What information are you getting?
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When the kid says I don't want to come to class, what information are you getting?
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When parents aren't calling you back?
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Could it be they had a bad experience in school?
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Is it about you or is it about their current circumstances?
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And after talking to her, she was like I just needed a mind set reframe, I just needed to shift, and like I just continued following up with texts with her, Like how are you doing?
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She's like I am so much better.
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She's a better educator for her students, for her family.
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Things were not going well at home either as a result of it, and so what started out as like a really morose conversation was actually pretty uplifting at the end where she felt like energized and rejuvenated to go back and it's February in the Midwest and there's no even though it's 70 degrees today.
00:20:17.069 --> 00:20:29.442
you know this is not the best time of year for us, but that was really inspiring to me when we hold our colleagues, that warmth, candor, that we can make a difference and they can make a difference for students.
00:20:29.442 --> 00:20:32.936
So that's my story at 35 minutes later.
00:20:32.936 --> 00:20:33.498
I love that.
00:20:36.172 --> 00:20:51.838
So what came to mind, being kind of stemming off of that, is like I was thinking as you're telling this story and a lot of these conversations is I think one of the biggest paradoxes of education teaching maybe specifically is that in both ways we have to take this work really seriously.
00:20:51.838 --> 00:20:59.910
But then we also sometimes take this work way too seriously, and it is knowing when there's a heavy, really important, high gravity moment.
00:20:59.910 --> 00:21:14.903
We all experienced as educators that when students are coming to us with trauma and they're coming to us with very intense needs that might even be on the curriculum, we do have a really important job, possibly the most critical job in that human being's life.
00:21:14.903 --> 00:21:38.569
But at the same time, because of that, sometimes we inflate all of these other little moments as like these major things that are a challenge to us in our entire sense of efficacy, when sometimes kids are just jerks because they're like having a bad day and sometimes I don't need to take this personally, and on the flip side, we need to have fun and we need to have joy and stop taking some of these things more seriously than they need to be.
00:21:38.911 --> 00:21:49.230
And I think for myself personally that's been one of the most important pieces is knowing the skills and strategies and being able to respond when a really intense moment is there and a really high gravity.
00:21:49.230 --> 00:22:01.410
But also learn to have fun, because the things that keep me doing this work is realizing how those two both contribute to changing your life.
00:22:01.410 --> 00:22:02.615
The amount of both.
00:22:02.615 --> 00:22:08.074
With my own students, teachers, I've coached people I speak to and work with that professional development.
00:22:08.074 --> 00:22:19.422
You know I get people coming up to me of like this was a really important critical moment or the story really resonated with me, but just as much get those responses of like you made me feel energized to do this work.
00:22:19.422 --> 00:22:23.637
I feel joyful right now and I think both those pieces are really important.
00:22:23.637 --> 00:22:30.375
So taking ourselves seriously, but not too seriously with some of the stuff that doesn't weigh as heavily as it should.
00:22:33.611 --> 00:22:37.970
As I'm hearing you both speak, I'm being reminded of times back in the classroom.
00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:42.421
So I was here is working with high school students and I loved it.
00:22:42.421 --> 00:22:43.182
Loved it.
00:22:43.182 --> 00:22:45.298
I had no desire to leave the classroom.
00:22:45.298 --> 00:22:48.130
I was actually right earlier that I reconnected.
00:22:48.130 --> 00:22:51.809
I mean, we've been in touch, but with the principle that I've known for 15 years.
00:22:51.809 --> 00:22:53.821
He's now a superintendent in Pennsylvania.
00:22:53.821 --> 00:22:55.170
I just saw him today.
00:22:55.371 --> 00:22:59.029
He's the one who's like hey, would you be interested in this coaching position?
00:22:59.029 --> 00:23:10.961
I'm like well, but I needed the courage to try something new because I get there, I like to stay where I'm comfortable and it opened up doors for me.
00:23:10.961 --> 00:23:16.598
That and, as I was telling Craig, just the opportunities to see myself in ways that I didn't even know existed.
00:23:16.598 --> 00:23:32.595
But when I'm hearing you saying and Ming this goes back earlier with it's really important who you surround yourself with, because and are those people bringing light into your life and joy and lifting you up and adding value?
00:23:32.971 --> 00:23:48.529
And a couple of weeks ago, craig and I talked to one of my SEL mentors and he was the first person who said that to me and I looked around at some of the people I was hanging out with when I was with the district and I'm like this is not healthy or good and how do I make that shift?
00:23:48.529 --> 00:23:52.381
And, honestly, that was around the time that I met Craig, which was incredible.
00:23:52.381 --> 00:24:00.701
The world opened up in this way through ASCD and I met these people who just had become my closest friends and spur me on.
00:24:00.701 --> 00:24:29.681
The hardest part is that we don't live near each other but technology allows us to connect and so, thinking about how can we leverage and expand our networks to allow ourselves to be around people who would invigorate us and find joy in what we're doing and hold on to those joyful moments, but I think, also give ourselves like it's okay if we realize this is just not for us anymore, that there's a bigger, another place we can go, and I love sure.
00:24:30.549 --> 00:24:43.999
Chase that we can still support education in different ways or work with kids in different ways or support educators, but we're impacting directly to many kids if this is just not joyful for us anymore.
00:24:43.999 --> 00:24:47.829
So it leads me to I'm going to give you a choice.
00:24:47.829 --> 00:24:55.676
You didn't give me a choice on your podcast, I'm just remind, wow she remembers that.
00:24:57.049 --> 00:25:02.577
This is a note I put down to come back to, so when I think I can't wait.
00:25:02.577 --> 00:25:16.519
Like I had my one fifth period, we had a pot pie contest because I was talking about the way that my German grandmother makes pot pie chicken pot pie in a pan and one of the students was like no, mine's better because it has a crust.
00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:24.281
And so we had to cook off for the class one year and then another time one of my classes came in with silly string and there was a silly string.
00:25:24.281 --> 00:25:30.529
I still have the ball of hard and silly string that I keep because it reminds me of waiting moments.
00:25:30.529 --> 00:25:32.230
So here's your choice.
00:25:32.230 --> 00:25:37.784
You did not give me a choice on whether you asked me about an embarrassing classroom story.
00:25:37.784 --> 00:25:54.789
I don't know if you remember that, so I would love to hear and Craig, I'd like to hear you too either an embarrassing classroom story or a classroom moment that just filled you with joy, that you want to hold on and preserve that moment because it reminds you of what you do and why you do it.
00:25:57.512 --> 00:25:57.573
Mmm.
00:26:00.155 --> 00:26:05.045
I have an embarrassing one that I can think of right off the top of my head but I don't know.
00:26:05.125 --> 00:26:06.067
Go, go, go, go.
00:26:06.067 --> 00:26:06.607
I want to hear this.
00:26:08.258 --> 00:26:10.605
You might have already heard this story.
00:26:10.605 --> 00:26:17.483
So I taught kindergarten and first grade multi-age, so one of the most stressful parts of teaching that age is dismissal.
00:26:17.483 --> 00:26:25.859
The first week of school like making sure the kids get on the right transportation, whether it's like after school, bus walker right.
00:26:25.859 --> 00:26:27.720
Have I told you this, krista?
00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:29.223
Is this sounding familiar?
00:26:29.243 --> 00:26:34.420
No, it's a little familiar, but it might not be for the SEL and EDU family, so okay.
00:26:36.897 --> 00:26:37.900
So sweet.
00:26:37.900 --> 00:26:38.500
Natalia.
00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:40.825
She's already, she's in college now.
00:26:40.825 --> 00:26:42.989
But I'm walking her out.
00:26:42.989 --> 00:26:45.059
She's a bus, she and my notes.
00:26:45.059 --> 00:26:46.183
I double triple check.
00:26:46.183 --> 00:26:47.298
She's a bus rider.
00:26:47.298 --> 00:26:56.326
She's walking out of the building and as soon as we get outside she's like where is this lady taking me?
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