068: Creating SEL Spaces via Music Insights with Dr. Ed Luckey

Transcript

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Welcome to SEL in EDU, the podcast where we explore how educators bring social, emotional learning to life by sharing stories, strategies and sparks of inspiration.

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I'm your host, Dr Krista Lay, owner of Resonance Education.

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Thank you for joining us on this SEL journey on this SEL journey.

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I'm Matthew Woods, host of Leading Out of the Woods, a part of the Education Podcast Network, just like the show you're listening to now.

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Shows on the network are individually owned and opinions expressed may not reflect others.

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Find other interesting education podcasts at edupodcastnetworkcom.

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Welcome everyone to season four of SEL in EDU.

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We are thrilled to be back again, and I am with a dear friend of mine who I've known for, I want to say, maybe 10 years.

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Dr Ed Luckey is an innovative educator and leader, specializing in restorative practices and social emotional learning.

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A trauma-informed dean of students, he designs and teaches graduate courses like Sonic SEL Classroom Connection through Sound, and if that hasn't piqued your interests, I don't know what's going to.

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Over the last two decades of experience as a music educator and director of bands, Ed promotes active learning and collaboration among students, families and staff.

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He holds a doctorate in transformational education and was a 2020 Grammy Music Educator of the Year quarter finalists.

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You never told me that.

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His patients include fostering student success through family engagement, cultivating and nurturing relationships and leading professional development.

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Dr Luckey so happy to have you on SEL and EDU and I'm so proud to call you a friend.

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Thank you, krista.

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I'm very fortunate, too, because it's within a month of each other that we've spoke, which is we're already doing better.

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Yes.

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So for those of you who are listening, we talk about how time just goes on and all of a sudden you're like where did time go?

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And then every once in a while, you get this text message or phone call from a friend and you are immediately back on it again, and that's, I think, what it's like for us.

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That's exactly right.

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We're right where we left off, and it's I think when you have those kinds of deep relationships with folks, time is merely a construct, really transcends that.

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Absolutely, and I love to see what you're doing in education, how you're keeping up with things, and you're constantly expanding your roles in new ways of not only reaching students, but also faculty and caregivers.

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So I think the first thing I'm going to ask is can you share a little bit about what your day-to-day work looks like in education?

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Oh sure, after just shy 20 years of being a music educator, I transitioned into being a dean of students and Chris in between the last time we spoke and now also in training to become a principal now, which is crazy to say out loud for the first time.

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So, day to day, what I'm doing is I'm taking care of folks really, whether it's parents and whether it's teachers and whether it's students, and supporting various initiatives building-wide and district-wide, and just making sure that everyone has what they need at any given moment.

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Sometimes it's at a triage level and sometimes it's at a more of a procedural level, and it's very rewarding work.

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It's very rewarding work because I think we're in a helping field after all, and it's just certainly different than being a classroom teacher, but so the rewards come in different ways.

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So I have two thoughts as I'm hearing you.

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One is that you have the right people in the room.

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So I have two thoughts as I'm hearing you.

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One is that you have the right people in the room.

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When you ask them what their job is, and their first thing is I take care of people, because I think so many people who may be in your situation are like I have to deal with discipline.

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And it's so much bigger than that, and it really is about caring for people, and so I want to really highlight your words.

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Oh, I appreciate that, and it really is about caring for people, and so I want to really highlight your words.

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Oh, I appreciate that, but in terms of SEL, it's the relationships.

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That's what makes it go man, and, along with social awareness, those are things that are central to both adult and student interactions.

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I lean hard on those because when things hit the fan, or even at some kind of initial meeting or even on the phone, first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to take steps to build rapport and mutuality with the goal of establishing, at least on a surface level, some kind of trust.

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I think about my body language when we're face-to-face or on a video conference, or think about my tone of my expression, how I might perceive folks and how they might perceive me, and those are skills that I really learned to appreciate by virtue of learning about SEL.

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I think some of those things came inherently, and I think for many educators it does, but such a difference between things happening naturally versus really being intentional about them.

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And you've hit on so many of the concepts that I believe in too, about this intentionality, and that it's not just how are we giving students opportunities to grow, but how are we modeling that for ourselves?

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And so how are we intentionally weaving it?

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But also, like you said, how are we aware of how we're showing up?

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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So you talked about rewards a little bit and I'd like to lean into that.

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Some of the rewards that you have in this position that maybe you didn't experience as a classroom teacher.

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They're the same and different.

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It's funny.

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I'll give you the most fresh example Mom who had been having a tough time getting doctor's notes and had expressed frustration about being badgered and targeted by the district and we're just vexing her and she was just feeling beleaguered and, I guess, under siege, and so had expressed as much and I had caught wind of that as much.

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And I had caught wind of that and so I had called this mom and I said hey, I caught wind that we're driving you nuts here.

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Tell me about it.

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And she did.

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And so the first thing, as I said, is, I am with you 100 percent and as a parent, you can again establishing mutuality went right to that.

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I was there.

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My son had an extended illness when he was younger, but you fast forward to now.

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I made sure that she understood what the intention was and apologized in that she had those feelings and her feelings.

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So we validated her feelings.

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I'm not trying to talk like a clinician, but that is what happened.

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We validated the feelings and established mutuality, but made sure that she understood, after not being in this state and also being homeschooled for most of the educational tenure of her kids, that a major point of growth or a point of concern in our district and nationally, even beyond Pennsylvania, is attendance and so being very we're trying to be supportive with attendance and sometimes that why we'll get lost, and kind of procedural things, and talked about how that has manifested from COVID on and how those numbers are off the charts and with that the correlation between academic achievement.

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But all centralized, when you get down to the heart of it it was about concern for the little one and so when we got to that point it went from feeling badgered to feeling cared about.

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When I came in the next day and came into my office to tell me she enjoyed talking to me, it was a great 180 from having really negative feelings to looking forward to seeing someone at the building kind of thing and that sparked joy if anything.

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And so that, rather than trying to dig because so much happens on a given day, krista, that honestly it's hard to remember all the things you just know you got folks from point A to point Z, but that was a good one.

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As I'm hearing you, one of the things that stuck with me is that you were proactive in your approach, so you had heard something, and instead of letting her kind of sit in that because sometimes when we sit in things it just ruminates but your ability to hey this is what I'm hearing, let's talk about this is something that doesn't happen all of the time, or I think it goes back to your intentionality of making the time for that connection.

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Absolutely, and making sure that it's possible to do it on the phone.

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It's harder to do it on the phone, but it's possible nonetheless.

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You have to be genuine.

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I care about the kid.

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I actually care about the parent too, and you can't fake that.

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And to your point about allowing for that space you have to allow for that and to allow for that space to happen, you have to let someone be fully heard and, honestly, I don't know if I get more out of it sometimes, because it feels like you took the ball to the end zone afterwards.

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So that's a reward.

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That's a reward right there.

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You mentioned mutuality a couple times, and what does that mean for you?

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I think it's a combination of not only establishing a commonality but going, taking the time to also empathize, and you can try to demonstrate that you can resonate on the same frequency of someone when they're going through a certain kind of tough time, whether it's an anxiety, whether it's a financial thing or whatever difficulty that it may be, so that I do I.

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One of the things I've learned is that sometimes folks will have a bit of a mistrust with administration.

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When you're able to verbally and emotionally communicate that you put your hands on one leg at a time too, and have been down a similar path and again, and have been down a similar path, and again, authentically and genuinely.

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Those are key.

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That's where I really think that mutuality happens.

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Man, I feel you, I've been there or I've been somewhere, something very close and in a nonjudgmental way.

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There's no hierarchy here.

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That's what mutuality I hold on to.

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And did you know?

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You made a music reference in that explanation, and so you said that we resonate on the same frequency, and so I'm curious how has your musical background and your musical talents and expertise helped you in the area of SEL?

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And I let you read my biography already.

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Now you're telling me I'm talented.

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That's something that I try to be forthcoming about is that is my lens is music education, and so much of what I do now isn't necessarily just by virtue of music education, but music education with SEL and that stark difference between things happening by default versus intentional.

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So I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I always will, because I think it not only speaks to the power of growth in education, but to the potential of SEL at large.

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Right around the time I was introduced, it was also at a time where things were statewide and probably beyond statewide.

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We're really focused on hidden numbers, we're so focused on PSSA, we're so focused on getting folks into STEM, and anything else is seen as second and third banana, and so I was, and I'll tell you, a dirty secret about us specialists is that many of us and I'll include myself will suffer, at least for a time, from some Napoleon complex, some inferiority complexes, because we will oftentimes be regarded as such, not as important as other things.

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And that was even more so during these times where, even within the quote-unquote core subjects, there's a priority on reading and math and this work and with music education, that work, enhancing my instruction through music.

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Music education naturally branched itself into learning how to not only see things from a I'm fighting for music ed, I'm advocating for music ed.

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I had a vocabulary and a framework with which to structure my lessons, lessons now that went beyond hitting objectives within the realm of music ed.

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But I was justifying music education and I was justifying my music department and I was advocating I apologize, wrong word for my music department with a whole new set of priorities that I took for granted with music ed.

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Now they were intentional and then that continued to grow, that continued to grow into and now it complements what we do as a district.

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But I went from having an adversarial relationship to having a communally wonderful relationship, because when I enhanced my instruction, enhanced my ability to form my relationships with admin and there's nothing that they'll say no to for music department and it's just I should correct that Adversarial relationship was very local and that relationship blossomed outward Now.

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So, with regard to music education and how that factors in us, music educators will often musical terminology with music education learning how to get folks weave and find compromises and make things work in spite of, and not necessarily because of, certain roadblocks or barriers, and so resilience music educators are really good with that too.

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We're also one of the last vestiges of the one room schoolhouse.

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I think music educators can be a high school band director, and you'll have someone thrown in, depending on the structure of your school, who's never played an instrument before, but the guidance counselor and the principal thinks that a band would be good for them.

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A good music educator will find what might resonate with that kid, what will fit them and help them belong, help them, enable them to become part of that family.

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And branching outward into this role when we get a new student, and when we get a student, especially who doesn't speak natively English, or any English for that matter, those are my kids, man, and so those are music ed.

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I don't know if that's necessarily that's because of the music ed that I was exposed to in practice, but I think honestly though, krista, any educator can use their formative experiences like that and apply it to their roles.

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I think I could have said the same thing, maybe, if I was a math teacher, although that would be a disservice to math.

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I think you're really onto something here, because in my experience coaching and working with music and tech ed and family, consumer, science and art educators, you inherently work the SEL skills into everything you say, think and do.

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Now, not all people might be as aware of it, but it's happening.

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So I feel like you're a perfect example of this happening in practice, where some content areas might not see that, and when you were talking about that safe space and connecting with families over a longer period of time, that really hit me, because my oldest played the saxophone and he played it all up through high school, took it to college with him Full disclosure, I don't think he's playing it anymore because he's graduated and he's focused on the job, but you were his safe spot, like when he breaks, when he had lunch he wanted to be with you and my second kiddo was into tech ed and so his safe place was in woodshop and doing.

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And so it wasn't the math teacher and while they liked all of them, it wasn't the math teacher, the science teacher, the ELA or social studies teacher that they were drawn to.

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The science teacher, the ELA or social studies teacher that they were drawn to.

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It was the person who created that familial atmosphere, who saw their strengths and talents and really leveraged that.

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Yeah, yeah, establishing a base of belonging is that's something that that guides me, that's what guided my dissertation to.

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The title of my dissertation was called Banding and Belonging Together get fined.

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With all these idea, though, it was a case study for english language learners and whether, if being by virtue of being in band if that it asks, if being in band affected their perceptions of belonging within school and, if so, how and over a course of time.

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And unfortunately, my findings did show that mutuality, among the other things, was found because, within that work that we did while that study elapsed, some of that work was we shared music, where we came Haiti and when they listened to it and why they listened to it and who's famous.

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And Puerto Rico was the other one, and it is a unique environment for those opportunities and those for validation, and we're unique, but we're family and so yeah, that's at the core.

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That's at the core, Krista.

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And protecting that space for people to shine.

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Yeah, and especially with regard to ELs, because ELs English language learners I know, depending on what school folks are listening to, you mean ESL.

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Same thing, right, same thing.

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So same thing, right, same thing.

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In terms of vulnerability, I know how much more vulnerable you can be, especially if you are a refugee, which one of the case study kids were, and I've had plenty of them over the years in the wake of some of the tough stuff that was going on in Haiti at the time and still going on.

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Israel, Palestine.

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Oh, extra vulnerable, and then some of the work that I've done and reading cisgendered white male trying to understand as good as I can.

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There's a push and pull when kids are going through that.

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They want to sometimes abandon their culture and try to assimilate as quick as possible and then sometimes they just want to hold fast too.

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And finding kind of a compromise with that where you can celebrate it while you're supporting, like learning a language, and that's again where mutuality really comes into play.

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And I love that you shared the vulnerability part, even with music.

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That's something that still connects my boys and I.

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When we get in a car together, they plug in their music.

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My oldest still sends me songs he's listening to.

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Just before we got on this call, I sent a YouTube video to our dear friend, Tom Stecker and said hey, I know you love this song too.

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I found the piano version of it.

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It's only a minute and a half.

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It's from a movie we both love called Eddie and the Cruisers, which is a music video, music movie.

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Please tell me you've seen this movie, have you?

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Yeah?

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Yeah, I've never seen the second one, though about the second one.

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Yep, I have all the songs memorized.

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There's even a lost tapes of Eddie and the cruisers, so music.

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But it's one that my family has bonded over and Tom and I bond over, so I'll send that to you afterwards and maybe I'll hyperlink it.

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But it's this beautiful piano of version of a song.

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And I'm right Click on YouTube, you can loop the song.

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So, even though it's only a minute and a half, yeah, you let it go.

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But it is.

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It's scary sharing those pieces of what you like and what touches you and something that's really culturally relevant.

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So it's, it is putting yourself out there a little bit with music.

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You're practicing vulnerability with that, absolutely, but in a healthy context and in a safe context.

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So that's and that goes.

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That would be one of the things that we would do in our that grad class that I'm fortunate enough to teach.

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There's a one of the things we do is we do a project called our song line project, and that's something we did in my class but branched out into, of course, the grad class, where we pick about eight checkpoints in our lives.

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We go in chronological order and you get to decide.

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You know how poignant you want to be and how vulnerable you want to be, and you decide what you want folks to know and what's none of your damn business which is important, right?

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Because I tell people you don't have to share everything you get to keep some to yourself.

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But some of the rawness.

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In a grad class.

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It's beautiful and you can, of course, in a grade school or middle school and high school level.

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You can help the students arrive at certain decisions.

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But obviously there's music for every occasion and sometimes a song may not be written to be sad, but that song is poignant to you because at a certain checkpoint in your life you're going through a particular struggle.

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And so I'll never forget one student, eighth grader, played in one of her checkpoints.

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It was around the time that she had lost her uncle.

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She's very close to her uncle and it was a bruno mars tune and she shared it and she wanted to share it.

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Are you sure you want to share?

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Yeah, I want to share it because you had to pick one of the songs of your slide deck.

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You showed your checkpoint.

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There was, graphically, the name of the song, the artist, why, the memory associated with it, and then you have to play one of the songs from it and she picked the hardest one to do and folks were able to grab onto that and she felt good about it afterwards and I was a mess, I was crying too I yeah songs that it just yeah, when in a grad class context, same idea the birth of a child and to the loss of a spouse.

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That's one of the things we do to establish community and, again, cultural opportunities in there as well.

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Yeah.

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Since we're still talking about music, I'm curious what is a song that is consistently on your playlist right now, or a song that, when you think about it, you're like this is SEO.

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Oh boy, yeah, there's.

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There's a song that I just came across and there's a fellow on YouTube YouTube, His name is the Kiffness K-I-F-N-E-S-S, and what he will do is he'll take things from.

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He'll take things whether it's a funny sample of a cat meowing in a strange way and work it into a song.

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And he's a very talented fellow who has things hooked up electronically and he'll loop it.

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He'll play for about four bars and then he'll layer on top of it and he'll often include children from all over the world who are singing like a cute children's folk song.

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And there's this fellow, I believe he resides in South Africa.

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The kid sang this song.

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It was in English, but it's.

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Thank you for joy, Thank you for pain, Thank you for sunshine and thank you for rain.

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It's going to be a beautiful day.

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It's going to be a beautiful day.

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I think I know that.

00:25:44.328 --> 00:25:47.047
Did that song make the rounds on social media?

00:25:47.548 --> 00:25:48.151
It sure did.

00:25:48.401 --> 00:25:54.884
Hearing his voice and that's the one.

00:25:55.567 --> 00:26:04.909
That's the one, and I think that one is SEL at its core, because it's not only expressing gratitude.

00:26:04.909 --> 00:26:08.864
Its core because it's not only expressing gratitude.

00:26:08.864 --> 00:26:15.402
There's a section in there because he says he doesn't want to get too high and mighty, because someday you're going to fall down on your face.

00:26:15.402 --> 00:26:18.528
It's about being humble and grateful.

00:26:18.528 --> 00:26:28.411
And to be humble and to be grateful, you have to be open and you have to be willing to grow.

00:26:28.411 --> 00:26:31.104
I just, I really do feel like that strikes at the heart of it.

00:26:31.104 --> 00:26:34.579
So that's one of the most meaningful songs that I've got going right now.

00:26:34.579 --> 00:26:36.424
I share with kids sometimes.

00:26:36.986 --> 00:26:37.406
Thank you.

00:26:37.626 --> 00:26:53.096
I'm going to link that in our show notes and I'm going to go find it and download it myself because, I think sometimes you just need those, those uplifting pieces, and the fact that it's from the perspective of a child too is really powerful.

00:26:53.096 --> 00:26:54.099
It helps Sometimes.

00:26:54.099 --> 00:26:56.645
It just helps you even out your own life a little bit.

00:26:56.645 --> 00:27:16.229
If people want to reach out to you and say, hey, I'd like to learn more about some of the activities, or hey, can you come in and talk to my staff or some of my students about SEL and its connection to music, or hey, I'd like to learn more about restorative practices or what it's like to be a transformational dean of students, how can they get a hold of you?

00:27:17.392 --> 00:27:35.913
Oh goodness, I believe I hopefully shared with you my Twitter handle at Ed Lucky there's an underscore in there somewhere and of course they can email me edlucky74 at gmail and I know folks do that and I'm happy to have those conversations.

00:27:35.913 --> 00:27:53.252
I've got a school in Maine that I may be working with their staff for a little bit and it's very gratifying work and only something I only just got to start experiencing in the past handful of years running professional developments and things like that.

00:27:53.252 --> 00:27:59.165
But moving on to grad classes, I was thinking about you it's interesting Sound like a mush here.

00:27:59.165 --> 00:28:01.888
You got me at that place talking about this stuff.

00:28:01.888 --> 00:28:04.849
But I started my day today.

00:28:04.849 --> 00:28:08.760
This is the first time they ever did this at my elementary building.

00:28:09.241 --> 00:28:24.845
Wonderful Shiloh Hills Elementary School in the Wilson School District was approached about forming a faculty band and I had first gotten the notion of forming a faculty ensemble because of my work in SEL and that was part of growing through becoming familiar with SEL.

00:28:24.845 --> 00:28:27.067
So, again, and that was part of growing through becoming familiar with SEL.

00:28:27.067 --> 00:28:27.988
So, again, bringing people in.

00:28:27.988 --> 00:28:43.512
I taught folks how to play other teachers and because, again, some of us music educators can be eggheads and isolate and compartmentalize ourselves and instead it was a complete paradigm shift for me, where I said no man, bring folks in.

00:28:43.512 --> 00:28:44.621
Fast forward to now.

00:28:44.621 --> 00:28:58.210
We had a faculty rehearsal this morning and working on some winter and holiday tunes that we're going to play for the last day before break, and then I'm ending my day speaking to you.

00:28:58.210 --> 00:29:05.429
This has been the best Friday I've had in a while, and you're part of both bookends today.

00:29:06.242 --> 00:29:19.969
And thank you, and I feel the same here too, and it's reminding me that we do need to stay on top of our pledge to remain more connected through time instead of these random pieces.

00:29:19.969 --> 00:29:27.912
So I promise you that's not the last you're going to hear of me, and I love the idea of the band because it's also having me think.

00:29:27.912 --> 00:29:28.333
I don't.

00:29:28.333 --> 00:29:34.068
I'm not musically inclined, that I can read music, but you know you can give me a little shaker and I can keep a beat.

00:29:34.068 --> 00:29:39.772
So I love that too, that there's some inclusivity on bringing faculty members together.

00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:43.585
That's one of the prime directives of grad class I teach.

00:29:43.585 --> 00:29:50.662
Short of having a severe neurological condition, every single human being can resonate.

00:29:50.662 --> 00:29:55.231
Yes, and every human being is musical inherently.

00:29:55.231 --> 00:29:58.545
As long as your heart is beating, you are musical Heart cells.

00:29:58.545 --> 00:30:06.243
I'm going to geek out on you a minute here but heart cells when heart cells split and divide, first thing they start doing is pulsing.

00:30:06.923 --> 00:30:10.867
When you're developing in utero, I mean, music is life.

00:30:10.867 --> 00:30:25.501
And if you want me to get extra heady, I liken to a good building and a good culture, to a really well-tuned guitar or piano, because when you play a guitar string, usually you're going to have the other strings vibrate.

00:30:25.501 --> 00:30:29.749
Same thing on piano, because when you play a guitar string, usually you're going to have the other strings vibrate.

00:30:29.749 --> 00:30:30.589
Same thing on piano.

00:30:30.589 --> 00:30:39.679
The other strings will vibrate when you play a single note on the piano, but you're not necessarily hearing those, but it enhances the sound of that.

00:30:39.679 --> 00:30:43.286
It'll still play if there's no other strings, but it's enhanced.

00:30:44.428 --> 00:30:48.394
And so we talked about establishing mutuality and resonance.

00:30:48.394 --> 00:31:03.324
And I feel that when we're at our best each person in a building and you can build out beyond the building and into the community you can build out beyond the community to larger swaths of geographical area.

00:31:03.324 --> 00:31:08.413
When we're at our best as humans, it's that sympathetic resonance.

00:31:08.413 --> 00:31:13.616
That's what they call it acoustically, when we could get to that point.

00:31:13.616 --> 00:31:17.309
That's when we're really making some music, that's when we're getting some things done.

00:31:18.815 --> 00:31:27.673
So I'm smiling inside and my heart is woo, because the name of the company that I've created is called Resonance Ed oh there you go.

00:31:27.673 --> 00:31:34.933
And it is very intentional, even though it's a mouthful for people, for all the reasons you just said right there.

00:31:34.933 --> 00:31:37.368
What is resonating with you?

00:31:37.368 --> 00:31:46.510
What is it like when we have resonance, how we influence other people around us, how we create something that's fuller bodied and more robust?

00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:50.224
Yeah, that's beautiful yeah.

00:31:51.267 --> 00:31:55.855
I need you to be my spokesperson for what you're hired.

00:31:57.441 --> 00:31:58.122
I'm down man.

00:31:58.261 --> 00:31:58.803
I'm down.

00:31:58.803 --> 00:32:00.705
That'd be great.

00:32:00.705 --> 00:32:09.801
January, new year, new actions, new thoughts, new feelings, new ways of being so thankful for our time together.

00:32:10.001 --> 00:32:11.086
Happy New Year everyone.

00:32:11.086 --> 00:32:13.976
Krista, thank you so much, it's been a pleasure.

00:32:14.739 --> 00:32:15.742
Thank you for making time.

00:32:15.742 --> 00:32:21.106
I know you're incredibly busy and it's just heart-filling everything you're doing and I'm so proud to call you friend.

00:32:21.106 --> 00:32:21.829
Thank you.

00:32:22.875 --> 00:32:23.356
Likewise.

00:32:23.356 --> 00:32:26.942
Thank you, friend, likewise Thank you, friend.

00:32:26.962 --> 00:32:30.066
Thank you again for tuning in to this episode of SEL.

00:32:30.066 --> 00:32:42.277
In EDU, at Residence Education, we equip educators with knowledge, skills and resources to design learning experiences that foster students' academic, social and emotional growth.

00:32:42.277 --> 00:32:52.160
We believe that every small action to foster connections and growth creates ripples shaping the future.

068: Creating SEL Spaces via Music Insights with Dr. Ed Luckey

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